Patience please. Let's count the votes.

Last edited by griff (11/07/2020 8:41 am)

BigV wrote:

How about now?!

Now is good!

Undertoad wrote:

Replace it with highly intelligent but aging American comp sci grads who have had to go to work in pawn shops. 

You demonstrated this problem many decades ago discussing (was it) Genuardi's.  Top management demonstrated the 'we fear change' and cost control attitude also found in other businesses today.  Computer technology, standard many decades ago in any successful grocery store decades ago. Genuardi would not implement or only eventually conceded.

Name a GM car designed domestically by a car guy in the past 45 years?  Name an innovative product from GE in the past 30 years.

Once upon a time, American executives came from where the work get done. Today few do.  When Gates left Microsoft, the CFO took over.  Name an major successful product from Microsoft during those ten year?   None.

Something like 50% of the Fortunate 100 companies were created by immigrants.  40% of this nations new companies are created by immigrants.  They come here on H-1B visas and other channels - to make America great.

Problem is too many bosses without a clue how anything works.  GE is simply an example.

My first software programs ran on a GE mainframe.  My first transistor was a GE001.  One of my earliest designs (a car alarm) used a thryistor as a memory device - GE.  Best chalks - GE.  Locomotives - GE.  Nuclear power plants - GE.  White appliances - GE.  Electric power stations - GE.  Advanced plastics (ie lexan) - GE.  Wires, receptacles, circuit breaker, etc - GE.  Medical imaging (x-rays, CAT scans) - GE  3D printing - GE. Satellites - GE  Recording (music distribution) - GE.  Renewable energy systems - GE. Transmission equipment for the electric grid - GE.  Radio and TV broadcast equipment and networks - GE.  Turbines - GE. Electric motors - GE.  Air conditioners - GE. 

So where are the innovations today that require technically educated people?  Do not exist.  No demand due to most bosses who only come from business schools.  Who have a same aversion to innovation as witnessed in Genuardi's.  H-1B immigrants do not create that problem.  And with less H-1B visa, innovative companies to exist 20 years from now will be less. 

Too many refuse to blame Americans who stifle and impede innovation.  Who enrich themselves at the expense of all others (ie Trump).

Last edited by tw (11/08/2020 12:06 pm)

Undertoad wrote:

  Nope. You can't come to the US on an H-1B visa and start a company. It's literally not permitted.

I said

 And with less H-1B visa, innovative companies to exist 20 years from now will be less. 

  They come here and work.  Learn.  Often stay.  Sometimes become citizens.  over the years, eventually  become a source of so many successful American companies.  Because of what they learn, what they do, and opportunities created when immigrants are welcome.

A vast majority of innovative American companies are created by immigrants or their kids.  Routinely a most productive sector of every nation's economy.

 

Last edited by tw (11/08/2020 5:39 pm)

Clodfobble wrote:

Outsourcing can definitely be a problem for jobs here, but I don't see anything wrong with luring talented people here as long as they're competing as the same salary levels.

So what minority group is responsible for a vast amount of American Noble prizes?  Not from Stamford, Harvard, Georgia Tech or Yale.  City College of New York.  Because a major number of America's most productive people come here without a talent.  Get educated.   Then have the talent that has made all Americans so prosperous.

America has a long history of making best use of immigrants.  Because America trains immigrant. Who then contribute some of the greatest gifts to mankind.

H-1B visas are only one reason why America was so innovative, prosperous, and productive, and powerful.
 

xoxoxoBruce wrote:

H-1B visas are not for your tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
 

Nobody said those were H-1B visas holders.  Clearly stated is why immigrants - entering through all channels including those seeking political asylum - are so often the most productive Americans.  Immigrants are a significant reason why all Americans are wealthier. And why this nation, throughout history, has been so productive. 

As UT notes, companies dominated by a cost control mentality, are a problem.  For example, this nation was suffering from a shortage of experience welders.  Educating welders cost money.  Increase costs.  So will decrease this year's profits.  We can pay them same by not educating them.  Business school graduates again looking at this year's bottom line.  And not what they will be four plus years later with a better educated workforce.

Companies could not find welders to do the work.  And who could innovate.  Then failed to blame themselves for not educating workers.

Companies that prosper typically spend two weeks annually upgrading employee skills.  

Last edited by tw (11/10/2020 10:26 am)

Undertoad wrote:

 It makes zero sense to fund college educations, or ffs create a cheap but onerous LOAN program for college, and then have those educated people working at pawn shops ... 

An example of the classic mistake.  Throw money at a problem to solve it.

So students were encourages to take out college loans.  Suddenly college's customer base was flush with cash.  So tuitions and other expenses increased significantly (including salaries of top management).  

What did I notice while taking courses at that time?  So many computer science grads only has business school, English, and music degrees. Did not know how a computer or electricity worked.  Some did not have know how to program in any structured language (C, Pascal, etc).  And then were called IT people.

Did that money upgrade / fix the education?  Nope.  But it sure did increase tuition costs.

This is also when I first began noticing how many American CompSci students did not even know basics.  And how many foreigner were actually more informed and talented.

We threw money at the problem rather than fix / upgrade the education.  Just another example of a money game.  Where profits - and not the product - were more important.  Leaving so many graduates with large debts.  And plenty of bosses who do not even know how the work gets done.


 

Undertoad wrote:

I am hopeful they won't restore the old H-1B visa levels

In the south the cane is squeezed and the juice is  reduced in water content under vacuum until it reaches the exact point when  it will crystallize when the vacuum is released to produce the most raw sugar. Slightly more or less water content reduces the yield considerably which mean big bucks to a plant making 5 million lbs a day.
The men who can make that judgement properly have been learning the skill for 20 or more years, are all from Caribbean Islands, and here on H-1B visas.