Flint wrote:

Flint wrote:

What's different about TikTok?

Flint wrote:

How is TikTok worse/different than Facebook?

Flint wrote:

Why is TikTok different?

Flint wrote:

How is TikTok different from other social media apps?

 

Flint wrote:

What's different about TikTok?

Answered twice.  Please read what is written.  Or state why it is too hard. Posting tweets is wasted bandwidth.

 

Last edited by tw (5/01/2024 7:55 am)

I would ask, is the EU is capable of investigating TikTok?

  Cannot really say what the EU is doing with Til Tok.  But the EU has not banned Huawei either.  US has.

All Five Eyes nations have banned Tik Tok from any government computer and people.  Even government operations for the homeless.

China says it will not sell TikTok.  Chinese government is a part owner of Tik Tok.  Said it will not part with Tik Tok.  Since (a concern) Chinese government has classified Tik Tok software as "sensitive technology".

Chinese government then said (a message to ByteDance) 

the relevant party should strictly abide by Chinese laws and regulations.

Damning suspicious.

India, Pakistan, Indonesia, and even the Taliban in Afghanistan have or did ban Tik Tok.  Europe tends to follow the American lead when it comes to security matters.

America does not (or is not suppose to have) a Great Firewall like in China.  But to ban Tik Tok, it must.  That should also raise an eyebrow.

Siphoning off data is one, by itself, is not a threat.  Siphoning off data from many different sources and especially where it is not considered a threat - that means massive discoveries / compromises by simply using massive data processing.  And who in the world is not moving to become the world leaders in supercomputers?  China.

Tik Tok gives China an extraordinarily easy path into America.  Both in siphoning off information.  And into another major threat not yet discussed.  Disinformation.

Scary how a majority will automatically believe disinformation.  Do not know how to separate lies from honesty.  Saddam's WMDs are the perfect example.  Smoking cigarettes to increase health are another.  That 6 January was a good thing - also easily believed by the so many easily duped by disinformation.

In computers, shocking are the number who repaste thermal compound.  Because lying manufacturers of the stuff order them to do so.  When all facts and numbers say that is a scam.

Tik Tok is an ideal tool to easily manipulate the so many Americans who only wait to be spoon fed.  Do not know how to separate reality from urban myths.  Vietnam was one example.  Saddam's WMDs another.  Even violent demonstrations on college campus is more classic disinformation.  Violence easily promoted and believed from podcasts and social media.  Forgetting to mention it was outsiders who attacked peaceful demonstrators.

Trump was asked if Putin was manipulating elections in 2015.  Trump said all 17 intelligence agencies said he did.  Dan Coates (his National Security Advisor) says he did.  Then Trump said he asked Putin.  With Putin standing right next to him, Trump said Putin denies it.  So Trump said he believed Putin.

And then so many adults, who do not know how to think for themselves, also believes Putin  and Trump.  Not all 17 American intelligence agencies.  Everyone one said he did.

We have another serious problem.  We have a majority of Americans who do not know how to think for themselves.  Who wait to be spoon fed.

Tik Tok is an ideal tool for manipulating this massive and unacknowledged weakness in America.

Again, I go right back to Saddam's WMDs.  Posted repeatedly were facts that proved those WMDs did not and could not exist.  And yet a majority in The Cellar, even provided facts, still believed Saddam had WMDs.

Even after George Jr admitted those WMDs never existed, still, at least one in the Cellar still insisted they must exist.  And remained hidden.

One thing is quite clear.  This Tik Tok law may violate the First Amendment.  But then we have another problem.  So many in America are easily duped by lies - ie Roswell.  Or vaccines that are creating autism.  How do some extremists say, "My right!  My rights!".  And then justify the banning of Tik Tok even thought it violates their beliefs in the First Amendment.

China calls it "sensitive technology".
 

Last edited by tw (5/02/2024 11:55 am)

Hi tw, thanks for the response.

tw wrote:

All Five Eyes nations have banned Tik Tok from any government computer and people.  

This sounds like a smart move. I would be concerned about a pipeline connecting any possible security threat directly to sensitive government data. To be honest with you, this seems to address that concern. How much more of an actual security threat is it for China to know the birthday of a million left-leaning 16 year-olds.?? Or which flavor of ice cream is trending, or whatever. Regular users of TikTok don't have secret blueprints of DARPA research projects, do they.??

2) Disinformation is a big problem. I think we've had major problems identified with misinformation disseminated from Facebook. I just have to wonder, why are we passing a law to ban TikTok, because of 1) data security, and 2) spread of misinformation, but we're not passing a law to ban Facebook for the very same offenses? Once again I have to ask, what is a UNIQUE threat from TikTok, not just a list of problems that ALL social media has. There has to be a UNIQUE attribute of TikTok.

Why aren't we passing a law forcing a right-wing billionaire to divest from Twitter? This is an actual threat to American Democracy that I am worried about. If one app can spread misinformation, if one app can have a potential biased ownership, then why aren't we worried about other obvious threats? Again, what is UNIQUE about TikTok?

I would argue that the key difference is-- TikTok's demographic skews heavily towards a younger audience. As I just heard a young caller to James O'Brien on LBC say, in reference to younger generations being continuously informed about the latest global events, and their shock and dismay, when looking at mainstream media outlets and finding that the same information is largely absent, "Why aren't we informing our older generations?" The youth is doing GREAT. They are INFORMED, they are EMPOWERED-- and it is phones, the internet, and social media that is making this happen. No wonder the establishment wants us to believe that phones are bad. No wonder we're passing laws against social media. No wonder Musk purposefully tanked Twitter. It's really quite a no-brainer, from my perspective.

Banning TikTok is corrosive to Democracy, for a multitude of reasons. It's also anti-capatalist. It's anti-free speech. What is the HUGELY IMPORTANT AND UNIQUE THREAT from TikTok, that NO OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA APP suffers from.??

How weird is it that we've been discussing this for days, and a solid, conclusive answer hasn't materialized from the ether? In my experience, when an answer can't be determined, one should be very suspicious.



 

Last edited by Flint (5/02/2024 4:37 pm)

I just have to wonder, why are we passing a law to ban TikTok, because of 1) data security, and 2) spread of misinformation, but we're not passing a law to ban Facebook for the very same offenses?

Facebook, Twitter, et al offenses have never been as flagrant as those done or possible by Tik Tok.  Putin used those medias successfully.  And was (to a large extent) cut off - albeit too late.  No such option exists with Tik Tok.  And besides, those social media sites were not written to be government weapons (as suspect with Tik Tok).

This is all new territory.  A major media web site was always American.  Including Amazon, Ebay, Google, Bing, and the so many web sites that preceded them.  Even all browsers are American.  From Netscape and IE onward.  Even though it was pioneered in Cern (Europe).

ik Tok is a first major site not in America.  Not subject to oversight or whistleblower laws  As a result, American did not need (is rumored to not have) a Great Firewall - as in China.

None of these answers are easy.  Since many require backing away from long held American principles that once made America dominate in world wide telephone, radio and TV, satellite, and internet communication.  Both in standards and in how connections are made.

For example, a call from Palestine to Israel often went through the US.

Banning TikTok is corrosive to Democracy.  Since it even means changing interpretations of the First Amendment and a concept called net neutrality.  But this much we do know.  The internet can be stopped or subverted; it is not virtual.  It can be corrupted by 'powers that be'.

Ask about Tiananmen Square in China to discover how many do not know what that event was.

No solid, conclusive answer can materialize.  Since so much is subjective, vague, and undefined.  And worse, requires us to change some long held principles that, for the first time, can means threats to this nation's security.  Again, even an octopus could not keep trace of so many tangents.

I do not say this idly.  Since my principles have long been aversarial to too much security in markets where innovation must always happen.  But I make no apologies for what I see, long term, as a major world war.  Someone with a long history of condemning unjustified wars (Vietnam and Mission Accomplished).  And outrightly blamed Americans as the only reason for defeat also in Afghanistan.  How does one enter a justified war only to screw it up that badly?

I regard this war, if it does happen, a major threat to this nation.  For the first time, America is at much risk as London was in WWII.

Which is why are I am also quite critical of people (such as Donald Trump) who would love another war. And even tried to start one with Iran.  Just like Nixon, Cheney and Rumsfeld, Goldwater, Alex Jones, Curtis LeMay, Marjorie Greene, and half the Republican party that would throw Ukraine under the bus.

This is the point where we decide to be at war with China before 2030.  Or avert a potential conflict.  By doing what America did in the 1930s - without the public so realizing it.  Designing in a nation to go to war.

I write this as neither a pacifist nor a hawk. So much remains to be learned and prepared for.  Little is fully evident.  But coming and possible trends are apparent.  Vague as they may be, we must still consider the many possibilities.

I hate sounding like George Marshall.

tw wrote:

This is all new territory.  A major media web site was always American.

You'll have to forgive me for taking a glaringly obvious interpretation of this statement to an absurd extension, but is it not apt to describe this as 'America fighting back against a threat to their global information hegemony?'

And consider the terrifying consequences of picking a "winner" in this information conflict. Do we really trust America to be the only arbiter of ALL INFORMATION in the world.?? America, the country who said Saddam had WMDs, are the best country to control ALL INFORMATION that the world is allowed to see.?? We feel so strongly that America, the land that punishes whistleblowers for exposing their massive spy network against their own citizens, is the best choice for an uncontested total global information empire, that there should rightly be NO OTHER VOICES in the conversation.?? Only the American Government itself, and it's most blindly adhering sycophants could possibly be comfortable with this.

For God's sake, are you really saying that the "threat of TikTok" is that ONLY AMERICA should be allowed to control a social media outlet.?? That's creeping me right the ƒuck out, I'm getting major "are we the baddies?" vibes.

tw wrote:

Nothing much new here....

It's new to the generations that don't know history. It's all relative.
 

Whoosh!

obvious interpretation of this statement to an absurd extension, but is it not apt to describe this as 'America fighting back against a threat to their global information hegemony?'

​A tweet demonstrates why tweets lead off into the hinterlands of disinformation.  Same disinformation is why so many Americans (ie Charles Lindbergh) praised Hitler and believed Germany had a Jewish problem.  (Roosevelt considered Lindbergh a Nazi). Even Nazi training camps existed in the US (ie North Jersey) in the 1930s.  Disinformation was not as easy then.  Now easier is to get so many to believe lies and wild speculation.  Charlottesville being a perfect example.

Previous examples cited.  And a bigger problem.  A majority do not know how to separate disinformation and lies from honesty.  Starts with simple techniques.  Such as suspecting tweets as lies.

Nobody said anything about the US controlling all information.  Wild speculation contradicting what was posted.  And a classic example of why extremists go off on their tangents.  By only seeing reality in tweets and emotions rather than what was written.

We saw some do that exact same disinformation thing with Saddam's mythical WMDs.  Since reality requires so many (too many) paragraphs, concepts, and numbers.  Then cheapshots justify lies.

Where do you read fascism?  Posted was the enemy of fascism.

For God's sake, are you really saying that the "threat of TikTok" is that ONLY AMERICA should be allowed to control a social media outlet.??[

For God's sake (if we need a mythical being to justify a fact).  Nobody said or even implied "ONLY AMERICA".  Why insert that nonsense and fiction into what never was said or even implied.  As if all American allies and democracies cannot be trusted.  Apparently you believe UK, Japan, Australia, Germany, Jordan, Chile, and France are also adversaries like Putin.  Only that reasoning makes a fictional accusations plausible.

Meanwhile what is scary is what Trump has said he will do if President again.  Make America Nazi fascist in the same vein as his heros - Putin and Orban.  Throw American allies under the bus.  A different concern.  If it happens, then everything discussed here become irrelevant.  We will be the baddies.

Which nations will we attack just like Mission Accomplished and Vietnam?

Only an evil (or just plain dumb) man would share highly classified intelligence with the Russian ambassador and their Foreign Minister in the Oval Office.  And become the first man in history to have a democracy "Pearl Harbor" another democracy.

One problem becomes apparent. Beliefs were imposed into and not written.  Posted only defines a new and serious problem.  Instead wild speculation has confused 'defining the problem' with solutions.  No solutions were recommended.  Possibilities (upside and downside) were discussed.  Only a tweet describes what clearly is not written.  Anon, who demonstrates fascist tendencies, would do that.
 

EXTREMIST POOPY HEAD

Flint wrote:

so the threat is, a major internet presence that is not American 

The threat is OBVIOUSLY a system controlled by an adversarial government.  So suspect that Tik Tok is defined by that government as  "sensitive technology". 

Nobody said it must be American.   This threat was minimal when most major web sites were American - not Putin's.  Again what was ignored:

Why insert that nonsense and fiction into what never was said or even implied.  As if all American allies and democracies cannot be trusted.  Apparently you believe UK, Japan, Australia, Germany, Jordan, Chile, and France are also adversaries like Putin.  Only that reasoning makes a fictional accusations plausible.

Those nations are competitors - not trying to become a military, social, and economic threat.  Competitors never try to destroy their counter parties.  Adversaries do.

And again, also ignored.  This is when we decide to make China so adversarial as to create war.  TPP was a superb solution.  Destroyed by a fascist who has now publicly admitted he intends to become a despot.  Even with Guantanamos in America.

Will an adversarial China become a military enemy?  That decision is why Huawei is banned.  And Tik Tok is clearly suspect.  Again, what was ignored and what the Chinese government calls Tik Tok:  "sensitive technology".    Not corporate technology.  Government owned technology.
 

Last edited by tw (5/04/2024 10:29 am)

It can be labeled sensitive tech not because they want to use it to manipulate other countries, it could be a fear of capitalist running dogs tainting Chinese youth with dreams of sugar plums. I'd bet on both.