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4/29/2023 11:48 am  #76


Re: The Gun Thread

More guns mean violent crime increases.  For obvious reasons.  The bigger the gun, the more entitled that adult who is thinking more like a child.  Is more interested in his rights and less interested in responsibility.

 

 

6/04/2023 6:28 am  #77


Re: The Gun Thread


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
     Thread Starter
 

6/04/2023 11:53 am  #78


Re: The Gun Thread

What a heartbreaking story.
Poverty and guns and maybe too late to end either one.

 

7/18/2023 11:29 pm  #79


Re: The Gun Thread

You are never going to end poverty that will always happen. Furthermore, the murderers did not do this due to their yearly annual income, nor did the gun compel them to do it. They killed those kids because they wanted to kill them. The only thing that would have stopped them is equal or greater force. 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/19/2023 6:42 am  #80


Re: The Gun Thread

In the moment, the equivalent force idea makes sense to possibly stop an individual act. Unfortunately, it is apparent, to me, that the sheer number of easily accessible firearms is in itself the problem. I don't feel like my temperament is much worse than anyone else's but I do not go around armed. Put bluntly, I would suggest that the paranoia which causes people to arm themselves in public is indicative of an unrecognized emotional instability which should lead them away from carrying not towards it. My personal reality is knowing a lot of generally decent but ultra-conservative people who carry. They feel threatened by difference so as a fellow rural white male I'm reasonably safe here but if I were different say, gay, trans, black, or whatever all bets would be off. To me, the sloganeering promise of an armed society being a polite society hasn't worked out because we are often at the core territorial, fucking monkeys not highly evolved rational beings.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
     Thread Starter
 

7/19/2023 9:08 am  #81


Re: The Gun Thread

Amen.


I Love my country, I fear the government.
 
 

7/19/2023 1:06 pm  #82


Re: The Gun Thread

That operates the assumption that guns create crime which simply isn't true. Getting beat to death with a club, slashed with a machete, or face melted with acid are all equal. It is the people that are the problem not the tools. The only thing restricting guns does is create more people who are less capable of self defences, guns are used to stop crime more they are used to commit cirme. Just like how the AR15 is the most commonly owned rifle and least used in crime. 

Last edited by toranokaze (7/19/2023 1:09 pm)


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/19/2023 8:49 pm  #83


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

That operates the assumption that guns create crime which simply isn't true. 

Reality comes from history - more guns increase crime.

This was discussed in great detail in the old cellar.  For example, in the old west, gun crimes were few.  A gun costs two or more years salary.  Even wagon trains had few with guns.  So a decision was always made who would shoot and who would wait.  So that someone always had a loaded gun.

Things became quite violent after the Civil War.  With a massive increase in guns.

Now that AR-15s are in increased numbers, crimes by AR-15s also have significantly increased - especially in mass shootings.  For other crimes, other smaller guns can spray just as many bullets.  And are easier to hide.

Guns change the mindset of an individual.  Might makes right.  How great is a change?  The more emotional a gun carrier, the more likely he will use it in a crime.  Justified for many reasons - all emotional.

Police officers and soldier must be trained extensively.  To think logically - not emotionally.  So a gun is less likely to turn one to the 'dark side'.

Guns change the mindset.  Bigger guns and more ammunition means one is more righteous.  That has never changed.  And is currently demonstrated all across America.  Where the emotional (who are only concerned with their constitutional rights) freely use a gun.  Where others (who are only concerned with other's constitutional rights) les often commit gun crimes.

Guns change a mindset - especially of the most emotional.  We all know why.  Might makes right.  That explains a massive increase in crimes.  And also in Mexico where numbers of guns have massively increased.  So much less crime in Canada where guns are not in massive numbers.  And where a gun owner's responsibilities are more relevant than rights.

Now that AR-15s have also increased in numbers, violate crimes with them - especially massacres - have significantly increased.  AR-15 are not easily hidden.  So other guns can spary just as many bullets.  Those also have increaed in violent crimes.  Massacres or just spraying a party with bullets - is increasing as the number of guns increase.

 

Last edited by tw (7/19/2023 8:54 pm)

 

7/20/2023 5:12 am  #84


Re: The Gun Thread

I carry a gun in my pocket when I’m around women; but, that’s so they’ll think I’m just glad to see them.

 

7/20/2023 6:11 am  #85


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

That operates the assumption that guns create crime which simply isn't true. Getting beat to death with a club, slashed with a machete, or face melted with acid are all equal. It is the people that are the problem not the tools. The only thing restricting guns does is create more people who are less capable of self defences, guns are used to stop crime more they are used to commit cirme. Just like how the AR15 is the most commonly owned rifle and least used in crime. 

I would say that guns can put people in an escalation mindset. Road rage shootings, although infrequent at something over 550 shot last year, are an example of situations where if we're rational we don't pull a pistol out of the glove box. When they happen we are not pulling a rock out of the glove box or a vial of acid we're pulling a gun which allows folks to maintain a distance and avoid acknowledging the humanity of the victim.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
     Thread Starter
 

7/20/2023 12:15 pm  #86


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze:
"The only thing restricting guns does is create more people who are less capable of self defences, guns are used to stop crime more they are used to commit cirme." (Typos not corrected)

I'm not sure this is true.

 

7/20/2023 1:20 pm  #87


Re: The Gun Thread

I would say that guns can put people in an escalation mindset.

That is an assumption.

Road rage shootings, although infrequent at something over 550 shot last year, are an example of situations where if we're rational we don't pull a pistol out of the glove box.

Again this is an assumption that they would not have just used a different weapon such as a knife, hammer, tire iron or their car. 

...allows folks to maintain a distance and avoid acknowledging the humanity of the victim.

The average gunfight occurs within 3 to 15 feet, this is a non sensical argument. 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/20/2023 1:55 pm  #88


Re: The Gun Thread

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344273747_What_Do_CDC's_Surveys_Say_About_the_Prevalence_of_Defensive_Gun_Use

2.2 million uses of firearms defensively 

https://americangunfacts.com/guns-used-in-self-defense-stats/#Study_Methodology_Criticism
The study they cite is 1.67 million  uses of firearms defensively 

When you cross reference with this study:

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

you will find that the average of all homicides on any given year are lower than defensive gun use. 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/20/2023 3:31 pm  #89


Re: The Gun Thread

Where do you stand, toranokaze, on gun restrictions for people under 21, or the mentally ill? Because I personally know someone who should absolutely never, ever, ever be allowed to purchase a firearm of any kind, yet in my state (which is also yours, if I recall correctly) neither his age nor his history of institutionalization prevents him from buying one.
 

 

7/20/2023 4:24 pm  #90


Re: The Gun Thread

18 year old are full citizens and have the right to buy any kind of firearm, if they cannot be trusted with a pistol then they shouldn't have the right to vote. 

If someone is too dangerous to own a firearm they are too dangerous to be a free person and need to be either: in jail, or in a mental asylum, 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/20/2023 8:41 pm  #91


Re: The Gun Thread

Anon wrote:

... so they’ll think I’m just glad to see them.

That's what you think.  What do they think?  Ever ask them?  (And survive?)

 

Last edited by tw (7/20/2023 8:41 pm)

 

7/20/2023 8:51 pm  #92


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

That is an assumption. 

That is a well establish fact even from history.

How did old west towns massive reduce violence.  Everyone surrendered their gun before entering a town.

toranokaze wrote:

 18 year old are full citizens and have the right to buy any kind of firearm, if they cannot be trusted with a pistol then they shouldn't have the right to vote.

  
Voting booths do not encourage one to become emotional and then violent.  Guns do.

What are almost all killings in Philadelphia?  All by offenders attack innocent people.  It is very rare for a defender to use a gun.

For obvious reasons.  The offender almost always has the first draw.  And picks his target.  Such as the store owner who is not anywhere near a gun.

Why are AR-15s now so popular?  It makes one penis feel bigger.  Obvious only to kill other humans.  We should all carry AR-15s with larger magazines to be safer.  Your reasoning.

We all also have the right to own 155 mm howitzers.  The Constitution says so.

Why have homicide crims increased?  More guns.  You study intentionally ignore that relevant fact.

Last edited by tw (7/20/2023 8:53 pm)

 

7/21/2023 12:02 am  #93


Re: The Gun Thread

That is a well establish fact even from history.

No, it is just an assumption you have. 

How did old west towns massive reduce violence.  Everyone surrendered their gun before entering a town.

That happened in some places sometimes, the west during that period is complex and not really a good model for any other place and time. 

  

Voting booths do not encourage one to become emotional and then violent.  Guns do.

Voting is the most dangerous thing one can do, and if they are not mature enough to own a firearm they are too immature to vote

Why are AR-15s now so popular?  It makes one penis feel bigger

That is just  an ad hominin 

.  Obvious only to kill other humans.

Self defense is a reason, but also target shooting and hunting. 
It is a popular weapon because it is reasonably priced and versatile. 

We should all carry AR-15s with larger magazines to be safer.  Your reasoning.

It would do so, that is empirically true. 

https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html 
Table incidence race ration associated with the effect of concealed-carry laws on violent crime: studies with no serious  methodological problems

Shows that concealed carry laws for shall issue and permit less carry reduce violent crime so yes it would make us safer. 


We all also have the right to own 155 mm howitzers.  The Constitution says so.

If someone has the money they should be able to have one. 

Why have homicide crims increased?

There is no one single answer to anything, but lockdowns most likely played a large role;  they spiked during and following lockdown periods which bucks the long trend of crime decreasing over the last 40 or so years


More guns.  You study intentionally ignore that relevant fact.

That is an assumption on your part, and you can't dismiss data based on an assumption.


 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/21/2023 9:18 am  #94


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

Voting is the most dangerous thing one can do,

A classic example of reasoning behind your beliefs. Such speculations are too common among those who constantly need a gun.  Their feeling justify everything.  Voting is somehow the most dangerous thing an emotional person might do?  Nonsense.  But such reasoning explain ridiculous conclusions.

Most dangerous thing a emotional person (an adult who is still a child) does is carry a gun.  Why did thousands of only emotional people carry guns while attacking the Capitol?  Why do KKK, White Supremacists, and Nazis carry guns in mass numbers in Charlottesville VA?  Only the emotional need more guns to both justify and increase their emotions (and satisfaction).  Having carried a gun justifies their opinions.

You intentionally ignore who is doing the most shootings.  Criminals with guns.  People who are suddenly righteous because they have a gun.  Not the vast majority of adults who are thinking logically - like adults.

You even ignore reasoning that justifies lots more guns  Everyone has the right to own a 155 mm howitzer.

toranokaze wrote:

"ad hominin"

  means you cannot dispute a reality

toranokaze wrote:

Self defense is a reason,

  Classic lie.  From the NRA, a long gun is no longer a useful defensive weapon when an attacker is within (if I remember) 11 feet.  Do you carry your AR-15 to keep everyone more than 15 feet from you?  That is not defensive. That is an adult so righteous as to even ignore facts.

AR-15 is a weapon of chose when one is so righteous as to arbitrarily kill anyone who gets in his way.  Its only purpose on the streets is as a street sweeper.  But the emotional somehow know it is a defensive weapon to protect him from a mugger.

Posting an article from a extremist propaganda outfit is not what an honest adult does.  It is what one does when righteous.  Apparently you are packing.

 

 

7/21/2023 11:07 am  #95


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

If someone is too dangerous to own a firearm they are too dangerous to be a free person and need to be either: in jail, or in a mental asylum, 

1.) It is not realistic to institutionalize people who are currently functioning, and anyone who has any experience with mental illness can tell you that it is a never ending cycle between (perhaps quite long) periods of functioning and short periods of decompensating.

2.) The same political party that wants free access to guns also eliminated funding for mental asylums. What you are suggesting would require an increase well beyond previous funding levels.

3.) At best, given your parameters, I can imagine a world in which medication for the severely mentally ill is dispensed by network-connected devices that monitor their use, and it is made a crime to not take your medication. This, again, would require massive amounts of funding, both for legal oversight and Medicare.

It is profoundly disingenuous to declare that mass shootings should be prevented by the mental health system while simultaneously voting to deny that system any meaningful funding.

 

7/21/2023 5:39 pm  #96


Re: The Gun Thread

Anon wrote:

I carry a gun in my pocket when I’m around women; but, that’s so they’ll think I’m just glad to see them.

tw wrote:

Anon wrote:

... so they’ll think I’m just glad to see them.

That's what you think.  What do they think?  Ever ask them?  (And survive?)

I don't have to, silly.


boardhost wrote:

Last edited by tw (Yesterday 8:41 pm)

QFT (the only part where it's safe to say that)

Now I'm looking for a good buy on a used hot air balloon. It doesn't have to still be able to fly; but, it can't have any rips or tears or holes. I want to fashion a holster for my 155 mm howitzer out of it.
 

 

7/21/2023 5:47 pm  #97


Re: The Gun Thread

But such reasoning explain ridiculous conclusions.

Most dangerous thing a emotional person (an adult who is still a child) does is carry a gun. 

yes because being beaten to death by an that same person would be a much more preferable option.

Why did thousands of only emotional people carry guns while attacking the Capitol?

They were unarmed and upset due to fraudulent actions during the election 

....Charlottesville VA?

They were unarmed the only death that occurred was because of a car (which led to a heart attack) 

 Only the emotional need more guns to both justify and increase their emotions (and satisfaction).  Having carried a gun justifies their opinions.

This is starting to feel like projection

  You intentionally ignore who is doing the most shootings.

Yes we should be harsher on gang members

Criminals with guns.

The people who do follow gun laws, 

People who are suddenly righteous because they have a gun. .

Like they aren't already with knifes, machetes and clubs? 
You act like guns are the only weapon and 

  means you cannot dispute a reality

No, it is a ad hominem, an insult that you repeat because you don't like the idea, 
it isn't productive. 

  Classic lie.  From the NRA, a long gun is no longer a useful defensive weapon when an attacker is within (if I remember) 11 feet.  Do you carry your AR-15 to keep everyone more than 15 feet from you?  That is not defensive. That is an adult so righteous as to even ignore facts.

It is to stop home invasion,  which I have had happen to me twice. 

AR-15 is a weapon of chose when one is so righteous as to arbitrarily kill anyone who gets in his way.  Its only purpose on the streets is as a street sweeper. 

 That is just silly . It is the most popular weapon and the least used in crime. 

But the emotional somehow know it is a defensive weapon to protect him from a mugger.

Again to stop home invasion. 

Posting an article from a extremist propaganda outfit is not what an honest adult does.  It is what one does when righteous.  Apparently you are packing. 

I am sorry you don't like the facts but they are what they are. 
You can pull the studies' data and make your own box plot if that will make you feel better. 


Litteraly on fire 
 

7/21/2023 6:20 pm  #98


Re: The Gun Thread

toranokaze wrote:

yes because being beaten to death by an that same person would be a much more preferable option.

  As if that is happens often.  What is happening often?  Mass shooting and other crimes where the shooter is entitled. Because he has a gun.  Even road rages justified gun use - only if he is justified because he has a gun.

Fear of what almost never happens?  Those who constantly fear must carry.  Emotion again justify a gun.  Same emotions say more guns mean less shooting.  Where are shootings most?  By criminals in criminal activity.  Ie street sweepers.

From the NRA.  A gun is 23 times more likely to be used on a member of the family than on a criminal. A fact; not an emotion. It must be a good thing according to the most emotional.  It will reduce the surplus population.

Lies.  The White Supremacists, Nazi, and KKK were marching in Charlottesville streets proudly carrying  weapons including assault rifles to prove their righteousness.  

You never needed an assault rifle to drive off a burglar.  A six shot pistol means a 5 foot defensive perimeter.  A superior tool.  Since the bigger gun inspires more emotion, then it must be better.  Based in the obvious lie.  More guns never make a safer population.  No toranokaze facts dispute that.  All we have is emotional fears of things that hardly happen - being beaten in the street.  As if an assault rifle would avert that.

More facts.  The guy carrying that rifle is three times more likely to have it used on him than on the criminals.  By the time he has times to use the gun, he is already compromised.  Often has his gun stolen.

Nobody needs an assault rifle to drive off a burglar.  Emotions ignore facts.  It loses its defensive abilities when the bad guy is identified in less than 11 feet.  But it does make one's penis bigger. So it must be better.
 

 

7/21/2023 6:25 pm  #99


Re: The Gun Thread

Anon wrote:

Now I'm looking for a good buy on a used hot air balloon. It doesn't have to still be able to fly; but, it can't have any rips or tears or holes. I want to fashion a holster for my 155 mm howitzer out of it.
 

Buy one already inside a C-130.  It works better.  The bad guys cannot fire back with their assault rifles.

Then you need not waste money on a bullet proof vest.  It also eliminates road rage.

And it is your Constitutional right.
 

 

7/21/2023 6:59 pm  #100


Re: The Gun Thread

Meh, the AC130 Gunship has only a 105 mm cannon, not to mention that the Constitution doesn't give me a right to own an airplane. You'd think the Founding Fathers would have seen that coming; but, nooooooooo. Since artillery works on the ground, trying to claim that having an airplane is organic to the functioning of artillery would be a hard sell in court. For only 105 mm it's just not worth the hassle.

 

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