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10/15/2021 2:26 pm  #1


Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

Very sad and shocking news this afternoon. 

A long serving MP, stabbed to death while holding a constituency surgery in a local church

This is the second MP in 5 years to die at a constituency surgery: 2016 Jo Cox (an MP for a neighboring constituency to me in West Yorkshire)  was killed by a right wing extremist over her stance on Brexit. 

As yet not much has been released about the killer other than that he is a 25 year old man and is in custody. 

We do not know yet whether this is a terrorist or political attack, or just some nutter. Either way this is incredibly damaging to the way democracy is done in Britain. Being able to easily access your representatives, both through visiting their constituency offices, or attending their open surgeries is a fundamental pillar of the system. 

Sir David was a conservative and most of his views I did not share (with the exception of his stance on animal rights and protection)  but he was doing what a genuinely committed and hard-working public servant should be doing. It's so sad that the MPs  most at risk, are the ones who actually do their job as representatives of their constituents - the ones who make themselves easily accessible to the people they represent, who take on case loads to help constituents with whatever local issues they have. There are so many ambitious politicians who don't really give a shit - this man had been an MP since the 1980s and was still working hard, being there in his community, meeting with people and getting involved in local issues. 


 

 

10/16/2021 12:35 am  #2


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

What the hell is a "constituency surgery"?


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

10/16/2021 5:43 am  #3


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

It's something most MPs and also most elected councillors do on a regular basis. 

You set up in a local facility, like a church hall, or a community centre - usually for a few hours - advertise locally and constituents can come to talk to you about whatever local issue they need to, or seek help and advocacy over something affecting them. It used to be just a walk in thing - these days a lot require you to call in advance to give your details (basically ever since Jo Cox was killed at a surgery 5 years ago) - but anybody can come to see them. 

By contrast to see an MP at their constituency office, requires an appointment and often you will deal with their aides rather than the MPs themselves. 

Back when I was a local councillor, my colleagues and I used to hold surgeries at a local church - there were 3 of us per constituency so we'd usually take it in turns and just do 2-3 a year each.  Some councillors held them monthly or every other week, but as our constituency was only a short bus ride from the Town Hall, we mostly just had people come see us at the party office in Town Hall and didnt hold as many surgeries 

 

Last edited by DanaC (10/16/2021 5:47 am)

     Thread Starter
 

10/16/2021 5:59 am  #4


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

I hadn't realised until I just googled the definition of 'surgery' that we use it completely differently in British english 
[list=1]
[*]1.the branch of medical practice that treats injuries, diseases, and deformities by the physical removal, repair, or readjustment of organs and tissues, often involving cutting into the body."cardiac surgery" 
[*]2.=11pxBRITISHa place where a doctor, dentist, or other medical practitioner treats or advises patients.
[/list]


This use of the word surgery was then expanded as a colloquial term for other similar scenarios - with the MP offering advice and 'remedies' for constituency issues

     Thread Starter
 

10/16/2021 7:03 am  #5


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

I thought I'd replied to this post yesterday. It really looks like democracy is threatened from a number of quarters right now.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
 

10/16/2021 12:45 pm  #6


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

I was sorry to hear of this on the news.
It brings to mind the attack on former US congresswoman Gabby Gifford in Arizona a few years back.
Also Dick Francis' novel "10-lb Penalty" covers the practice, but I don't remember the term "surgery.".
Thanks to Ut for his insight. 

 

10/16/2021 1:53 pm  #7


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

I read this morning the cops are calling it a terrorist attack because the killer is a strong supporter of islam.
 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

10/16/2021 2:10 pm  #8


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

Looks that way. 

Depressingly, and predictably, this has generated a huge amount of snarky 'oh its the religion of peace again' or 'how's that multiculturalism working out for you Britain' type comments all over Youtube.
Five years ago it was a white, right-wing extremist who killed a left wing MP - that doesn't mean every conservative is a terrorist. Way back when, there were attacks on MPs by IRA terrorists

Dickheads like this don't represent Islam and Muslims, they represent extremism
 

     Thread Starter
 

10/16/2021 2:36 pm  #9


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

DanaC wrote:

 Dickheads like this don't represent Islam and Muslims, they represent extremism
 

Diskhead is a subjective and vague description.  Same people brought power to Hitler and Joseph McCarthy.  Extremism is about telling adults, who are still children, what to believe.  Hitler said it quite clearly.  Disparage the bourgeoisie and intelligencia. So that only soundbites (ie tweets) will educate extremists - people who are only emotional.

Limbaugh said same in his early days in California.  The news to too complicated.  I will tell you what to believe.

So many also knew Saddam had WMDs, that "search and destroy" is how to win wars, that kids at Kent State deserved to be shot dead, that Brexit is good for Britain, that the Covid vaccine creates sterility, that Listerine does something useful, that Hillary Clinton was running a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza shop,  that immigrant come to America to get a free ride, and that Trump is honest.  Soundbytes prove it is all true.  I heard it on Facebook.  It must be true.  Facebook and Fox News would not lie.

Adults who are still children.
 

 

10/16/2021 4:33 pm  #10


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

There was a gunman at a Republican congressional softball game in the DC area a few years back.  It appears to have been hushed up pretty good, because you don't hear about it much.

Not sure if it's to reduce the likelihood of copycats, or if it's just doesn't fit the narrative of gun nuts always being Republican so it doesn't get reported much.

 

10/17/2021 11:30 am  #11


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

 House Minority Whip Steve Scalise was the most seriously injured in the ball game attack.
It is hard to say if he suffered permanent brain damage.

 

10/18/2021 10:59 pm  #12


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

Diaphone Jim wrote:

 
It is hard to say if he suffered permanent brain damage.

He's still Republican so the answer is yes.
 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

10/19/2021 12:25 pm  #13


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

xoxoxoBruce wrote:

What the hell is a "constituency surgery"?

"town hall meeting"


signature s c h m i g n a t u r e
 

10/19/2021 2:23 pm  #14


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

Flint wrote:

xoxoxoBruce wrote:

What the hell is a "constituency surgery"?

"town hall meeting"

I'm not sure if that's exactly the same - at the town hall meetings is that not where a politician speaks to a room full of people and they can shout out questions? 

With a surgery - people come and speak one to one with the politician 

     Thread Starter
 

10/19/2021 3:00 pm  #15


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

oh... yeah that's different


signature s c h m i g n a t u r e
 

10/19/2021 7:46 pm  #16


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

It's like a walk-in clinic at the doctor's office, but for your elected representative.  First-come first-served but everyone within their constituency is entitled to seek a consultation until time runs out.


The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity  Amelia Earhart
 

10/20/2021 4:11 pm  #17


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

monster wrote:

It's like a walk-in clinic at the doctor's office, but for your elected representative.  First-come first-served but everyone within their constituency is entitled to seek a consultation until time runs out.

That's so much clearer than my explanation - thanks Monstah!

     Thread Starter
 

10/20/2021 5:36 pm  #18


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

I'm bilingual ;)  They don't call a GP's office a surgery either


The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity  Amelia Earhart
 

10/20/2021 6:34 pm  #19


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

So many fancy words for what is only an office, an operation room, a theater (so that other doctors can watch), or a human repair shop.
 

 

1/09/2022 4:12 pm  #20


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

DanaC wrote:

  2016 Jo Cox (an MP for a neighboring constituency to me in West Yorkshire)  was killed by a right wing extremist over her stance on Brexit.  

Because that shooter was an extremists (brainwashed and uneducated), then he had no idea what we now know.

From The Economist of 1 January:

Promises of more trade and of regulations fine tuned to suit British companies never seemed realistic, given the friction-free nature of the single market and its regulatory dominance worldwide.  ... The office for Budget Responsibility, a government watchdog, expects Brexit to sap Britain's productivity by around 4% in the long run....

... an industry group had found that 17% of exporting businesses had stopped exporting to the EU ...

... custom payments came to £3.9 billion; 25% more in cash terms than during the same period in 2019 ...

Anecdotes abound of British companies shifting operations to the EU rather than continuing  to supply the continent from Britain. ...

... but  services, which were almost entirely excluded the the TCA, suffered more.  The UK Trade Policy Observatory ... estimates that during the first half of 2021, estimates that ... the deal depressed services imports into Britain and exports to the EU by 37% and 11.5% respectively. ...

British qualifications in the fields such as architecture, accountancy, and auditing are no longer recognized in the EU.  ... For financial services, Brexit was an almost complete rupture: they were unceremoniously excluded from the TCA.  The sole exception is clearing, which British firms can carry out for EU clients until June 2022.

... City of London, once a crucial element of Europe's financial plumbing, is increasingly being bypassed. ...  Amsterdam is taking over ....

[In order to still do business with EU entities, chaperoning was used.]  ... expect a crackdown on practices such as "chaperoning, which allows a British financer to advise an EU client provided an EU-regulated person is also present.

Brexit was not hyped by moderates.  It was promoted by extremists using soundbyte reasoning.  That only works on extremists (ie someone with a 30 second attention span).  As a result, increases in trade, productivity, innovation, and manufacturing have, instead, already started to diminish.  Shocking is that economic indicators show adverse conditions so quickly.  Typically, things (like tax cuts) take four and more years to show economic harm.
 

 

10/21/2022 6:30 am  #21


Re: Sir David Amess, MP - stabbed to death

Brexit was not hyped by moderates.  Was promoted by extremists using soundbyte reasoning.  One would think the Brits get it.  Now that their economy is slowly degrading as predicted.  Even worse is low intelligence demonstrated by their leaders. 

Only someone dumb would claim tax cuts make a more robust economy.  That was always an obvious lie.  Even worse (because she is brainwashed by her extremist rhetoric) foolishly advocated massive tax cuts only for the rich.  Someone just as wacky and dumb (Trump) also did that in America.  We are now seeing the result of that major mistake.

Since she was not a moderate (a patriotic Brit), then she simply tried to push even farther the stupidity of Theresa May and Boris Johnson.  But then what choice did the Brits have.  Another anti-British politician (because he was an extremist and therefore brainwashed) was Jeremy Corbyn. Corbyn has been replaced.  Current leader of the Labor party is not avidly speaking in extremist rhetoric.  Therefore he might be a patriotic Brit - a moderate.

Brits are stuck with many extremists from the Conservative party until 2024.  Unless moderates rise up and demand intelligent leaders.
 
Liz Truss demonstrated corruption (due to ignorance) that is found in all extremists.  Extremists are brainwashed by rhetoric - not by facts.  One even openly admitted the purpose of extremism.  To fuck things up.

She was so extremist that even Conservative Party leaders knew how dumb she was.   But she brainwashed grass roots in that party who then wanted her.  She talked in soundbytes.  Soundbytes (ie Tweets) easily manipulate the ignorant and naive (who would also attack a Reichstag or Capitol Building to promote a corrupt and potential dictator.  Who also know Saddam had WMDs because soundbytes said so.).

Few says stupidity more than Brexit.  But then it was only promoted by extremists using soundbytes.  And since Labor was also extremists, then Labor could not put forth honest and intelligent replies.

Stupidity is not limited to Britain.   Silvio Berlusconi is now (and again) a popular and potential Prime Minister of Italy.  Being an extremist, he openly praises and advocated the policies of Vladimir Putin.  From Wikipedia:

On the eve of the 2022 Italian general election, he defended the "special military operation" implemented by Russia, adding that Putin just wanted to replace Volodymyr Zelenskyy's government with "decent people". In October 2022, leaked audio recordings revealed Berlusoni expressing dismay at Italy's military support for Ukraine and blamed Volodymyr Zelenskyy for Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And so extremists also love Berlusoni.  They love the hate necessary to make any extremist popular.

Loving wacko extremists is not limited to Britain.
 

Last edited by tw (10/21/2022 6:34 am)

 

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