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The Cellar: a friendly neighborhood coffee shop, with no coffee and no shop. Established 1990.

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4/07/2021 6:10 am  #51


Re: I bawt a Tesla

I think folks have a pretty good idea who Musk is. He's kind of an asshole who didn't quit on the future like the rest of corporate America. The rest will eventually be forced by the market to participate. The data collection is problematic and already out of the the box, it's like the anti-Vaxxers posting from their iPhone about Gates using Covid to chip them.The reality is if we want to assert some authority over data we have to regulate it's use. This means we have to acknowledge that government has a role and the people have to assert their authority over government. That data can be very beneficial. All that said, I am tempted to buy a CJ-5 and electrify it or develop my own fuel, that code is pretty deep in our heads.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
 

4/07/2021 9:13 am  #52


Re: I bawt a Tesla

If I want to go somewhere I'll drive thank you, I've been doing it since I was 12 and got it down pretty good.

You'll be able to drive the car yourself at any time, if you want to enjoy the experience... of the expressway at rush hour. That's what people have to drive, most of the time. The morning commute is almost never a beautiful windy back road with no other cars on it. It's the fucking crowded highway for most of us, for an hour a day or more, and it's 0% fun.

But also, how long ya figure you can drive yourself? You've got a few years on me, and my eyes are starting to be less useful, especially at night. Sometimes I don't trust myself driving, if I've been at the monitor all day. Mom's got it a lot worse, she can barely drive now, and four years ago she was making road trips to Tenneessee to teach art classes. It would be marvelous if she could do that again.

Also she was in a small wreck two years ago that I believe was completely her fault and that a Tesla would have either seen and prevented, or warned her about her path of travel so she could hit the brakes herself.

I also have a problem with somebody else making changes to my vehicle without my permission, indeed without my knowledge.

But what if they improved it? I mean what if you woke up one day and your car had a bigger range, or a new set of radio stations, or suddenly had the ability to protect you better in a fiery crash?

This is one of the reasons I bawt it, because it was and still is the only car that will improve after purchase.

Do you really think the Philly / North Jersey stink will go away?

Yes, but mostly because people hate enormous environmental problems taking up valuable real estate in their back yard. Apparently the South Philly refinery is done! The land has been sold to people who are going to convert it to other things. There are still refineres in the area, but mostly across/down the river.
 

Last edited by Undertoad (4/07/2021 9:16 am)

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4/07/2021 11:46 am  #53


Re: I bawt a Tesla

I think it may be true that a complaint to Tesla about not getting the range expected resulted in something like "Hold please.  Be advised that  we have remotely uprated your software."
Next, why not a message; "We have seen your complaints in The Cellar about the dashboard and regret to inform you that movement  from your present location east of Winnemucca will be prevented until tomorrow at 1700 hours." 

 

4/07/2021 10:59 pm  #54


Re: I bawt a Tesla

The people jamming the expressway twice a day are a pretty small segment of the driving public. It's a very local urban problem for cities that have little or no public transport. I've never worked in the city, never allowed myself to get trapped into that mess. There are plenty of employers in the burbs for us drones.
At 76 I know my reaction times have slowed and I have compensated. Pay closer attention at night and slow down during the day. Being aware of the need for an honest appraisal of abilities is key. I'm not comfortable riding with most other people so letting the car drive is a non-starter. I know I don't have to let the car drive but have to pay for the ability, pay for the maintenance of all those sensors. I know damn well it's the same design thinking that won't let me print black on white when I'm out of red ink. All those circuits I don't use are still active, still talking to each other and if one of the sensors sneezes the system will throw codes, light up the dash, and maybe drive itself to the hospital. The problem can't even be diagnosed without a zillion dollar analyser and proprietary software. You have a hell of a lot more faith in their long distance ability to diagnose trouble than I do. They can't account for mouse chewed or moisture infiltrated circuits, cars live in a cruel cruel world.

Define improve it. New radio stations? Fuck no, leave it alone, there's way more stations than I need now. Better range? At what cost, what am I giving up?  Protect me in a fiery crash? If I don't let it drive there shouldn't be a fiery crash. Install an ejection seat over the air? Seriously, improvements is very fucking subjective. They don't want to take the time(money) to ask me first because Mother Musk knows what's best for me?  How do I know who is making changes, how do I know it's not an ex-wife adjusting my brakes?  No, just no, leave my shit alone.

NIMBY is why the stinkies were built where they are, they were built long ago when they were out of town but still accessible to a work force before everyone had a car. Now instead of repair and upgrade they'll move further out. I think Marcus Hook will stay to handle Fracking gas coming down that billion dollar pipeline through Delaware County. But they will be making more stinky stuff somewhere and it's all the same air.


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

4/08/2021 12:17 am  #55


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Better range? At what cost, what am I giving up?

Nothing, I believe it came from a change in battery management

10 months in I can find no improvement that is even an annoyance. The auto highbeams work better.  Autopilot is a little less ping-pongy in the lane when you switch it on. The Spotify interface is improved. The horn can now play La Cucuracha or several other sounds if desired.

Can't stop mice, but the redundant neural network understands what to do if a system fails. Don't want to pay for maintenance of eight cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors and a front radar... what maintenance? What happens if one sneezes? Car says, hey your right rear camera is off. Does it drive itself to the hospital? No, a Tesla service person drives to you if that's necessary. A large amount of service is done with their mobile service vehicles.

Sophisticated diagostic software - every car on the road now has that requirement. Here's the secret: Teslas have less to diagnose, not more.

Think of all the shit your cars have ever "thrown a code" for. 9 out of 10 times, the failing system was a complicated part of a gas engine, or a transmission with a hundred moving parts. Open that hood and look at what a mouse has to eat. It's a smorgasbord. Now open a Tesla's engine compartment -- oh but you can't, there isn't one.

This is fun keep it coming

Last edited by Undertoad (4/08/2021 12:21 am)

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4/08/2021 9:15 pm  #56


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Damn.  Another science fiction writer sneaked into the specification writer's room.

They should chain these guys to chairs in the superheroes writer's room.  Where they are really needed,

 

Last edited by tw (4/08/2021 9:18 pm)

 

4/08/2021 11:08 pm  #57


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Maybe that's why these EVs are so expensive, they're using components that won't fail. Probably forged under a full moon from recycled, or at least ethically sourced, unobtainium.
Change is only progress if it's something you need or at least want. Better hope the hackers making changes are authorized factory hackers.
I can't figure out if the car has to drive itself because the owners are too busy fucking around with bells and whistles, or they are provided to amuse the owner while the car drives itself. 

Cars have gotten so cushy in the last 50 years people take driving for granted because any moron can do it. It's not hard to see proof of that every day as morons abound. Situational awareness is a mystery to them. Duh, is that something from Star Trek Bro?

The jammed expressway and the deserted windy country road are extremes, outliers, mostly people drive on two lane roads with a centerline, although not always, and potholes. Lots and lots of potholes. You can miss the most damaging holes if you pay attention, but even roads you travel everyday are always in flux. I doubt a four passenger Roomba will do that.
I take solace in that if I fall into one of the really big holes, Bill Gates can locate me from my Covid shot implant, although it's highly unlikely anyone will ask him to.


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

4/08/2021 11:19 pm  #58


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Undertoad wrote:

Thanks, I hate it.  

MB is just mimicking Cadillac, although digital rather than Caddy's analog.
https://i.postimg.cc/yxDm2skQ/cadillac.jpg


Hmm, 1953. I wonder if she's alive and if so what does she look like?

 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

4/09/2021 7:58 am  #59


Re: I bawt a Tesla

The actual question is can AI be trained to detect potholes. I imagine it's hard to see one and figure it out, because it dopesn't look like anything in particular and doesn't have any mass. But if it drives over one, that will be easy to detect.  M*sk has suggested that Tesla will eventually talk to each other about road conditions, so if one car finds a pothole it will let all the others know it's there, but how soon that arrives, dunno.

FSD already does detect things in the road and avoids them. It's definitely trained to detect pedestrians. It's all about how the AI is trained...

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4/09/2021 8:27 am  #60


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Maybe that's why these EVs are so expensive, they're using components that won't fail.

Less likely to fail because they aren't literally trying to harness the energy of controlled explosions to create movement.

I am constantly reminded of my friend who complained endlessly about the newfangled lightbulbs when incandescents were being phased out for CFLs. "These new ones are hard to throw away. They make a weird light, they flicker and they can't be dimmed."

I realized that, if we went from CFLs to incandescents, he would also be complaining. "These things get really hot - you can't even touch them when they're on. They make a weird orange light. They use ten times the electricity."

So it is going from gas to electric. If we were going the other way, the complaints would be marvelous. "This thing makes all kinds of racket, can't come home without waking the family, even the neighbors know you're home." "You have to fill it with this expensive, dangerous fuel every week! And you can't fuel at home!" "The engine gets really hot and needs a special expensive cooling system which breaks down." "It's so slow. You step on the accelerator and there's a one-mississippi before it really starts going." "The brake pads constantly need replacing, what's up with that?" "So you're saying it doesn't recover the energy when it brakes or goes downhill?"

This is old man yells at cloud territory, you hate it because it's new. Listen man, if the car was a turd I'd know it and I'd point that out. I don't like the car because Musk built it, I like it because it's fucking amazing. It's like riding a roller coaster all day.

And, now I like Musk, because he built it and builds lots of other really awesome things.

 

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4/10/2021 3:49 pm  #61


Re: I bawt a Tesla

This is not about you, stop taking it as a personal attack. The car doesn't suit my wants and needs and I'm tired of people telling me this is the greatest thing since sliced bread and if I don't agree I'm a technodolt who is holding up the wheels of progress to Musktopia. I would rather not pitch into the brave new world which as always is fraught with very nasty dragons that nobody can see until it's too late.
Oh, not to worry, Reverend Elon will take care of us. Of course he will, you're an important ingredient of Soylent.
He's a smart cookie and has created a fan-boi following in the Jobs style, who throw so much money at him he can fund all sorts of projects that will pay off big time if they work. If they don't it's a tax write off. He saw these people with lots of Bitcoin "wealth" who couldn't buy anything with it so here buy a car with it giving them an outlet. Genius move if he can convince everyone it's a legitimate asset to Tesla.
Is monkey who can play pong with brain waves a sentient creature? Can it be owned? Can it vote? Can it buy a gun?
I'll lay 10 to 1 none of the Musk family ever goes to Mars but the wannabe trekkies will make him richer.
https://i.postimg.cc/43q9xM80/tesla.jpg

 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

4/10/2021 6:10 pm  #62


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Undertoad wrote:

The actual question is can AI be trained to detect potholes. I imagine it's hard to see one and figure it out, because it dopesn't look like anything in particular and doesn't have any mass. But if it drives over one, that will be easy to detect.  M*sk has suggested that Tesla will eventually talk to each other about road conditions, so if one car finds a pothole it will let all the others know it's there, but how soon that arrives, dunno.

FSD already does detect things in the road and avoids them. It's definitely trained to detect pedestrians. It's all about how the AI is trained...

Wouldn't LIDAR or SONAR be able to detect potholes?
 


Hey! That's me up there!
 

4/10/2021 8:05 pm  #63


Re: I bawt a Tesla

But true fanboi-ism doesn't come from being charismatic, it comes from delivering. Every CEO would love to have fanbois, and many try. All they really have to do is deliver. If Elon doesn't deliver good production numbers in 2018, he's dead in the water. In 21/22 if he doesn't deliver on self-driving, people will drop off his dick. If the semis aren't a better or cheaper way of transporting goods, no shipping company will ever buy one.

Truth is, for every fanboi, there is a hater who just doesn't like 'im. For reasons unknown. You can acheive things in this world and a third of people will always come up with a reason to hate you. A lot of people hate the rich and/or successful as a stand-in for the system that has personally fucked them.
 

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4/11/2021 6:17 am  #64


Re: I bawt a Tesla

footfootfoot wrote:

Wouldn't LIDAR or SONAR be able to detect potholes?
 

That's a lot of fast computing...


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
 

4/11/2021 10:39 am  #65


Re: I bawt a Tesla

LIDAR is defeated by rain, which I'd imagine is one reason the Waymo robotaxi service that uses it is based in Phoenix. I believe this is an ongoing battle over how to automate driving (many driving systems use it, Tesla doesn't) and only time will tell which is victorious.

In the long run, camera+AI will definitely be able to identify a pothole. We just don't know how long that long run is. Next year or next decade?

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4/12/2021 3:00 am  #66


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Identifying it shouldn't be too hard, but determining it's depth and severity, choose between hitting one or another, when it's safe to use the whole road, and when it's time to send a letter bomb to your congressman, will be more difficult.


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

4/12/2021 7:32 am  #67


Re: I bawt a Tesla

I even have trouble detecting potholes.  It that thing a damp spot?  Is it a shallow pothole?  Is it a rip your undercarriage off hole?  It's not until I'm too close to change my course that I can be sure.  

We don't have many potholes around here so I only encounter them when driving roads I don't know.  I don't want to be swerving all over the road avoiding damp spots on the pavement.

 

4/14/2021 8:58 am  #68


Re: I bawt a Tesla

2022 Tesla Roadster interior

http://cellar.org/img/2022roadsterinterior.jpg


It's about a quarter of a million $
0-60 in 1.9 seconds
0-100 in 4.2 seconds
quarter mile 8.8 seconds

Top Speed - Over 250 mph
Wheel Torque - 10,000 Nm
Mile Range - 620 miles

 

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4/14/2021 9:29 am  #69


Re: I bawt a Tesla

I would think a car like that would be fun to drive, rather than be a passenger as the car drives itself.

And if you are going to be driving the car, I would like to be able to reach controls by feel rather than using a touch screen. 

 

4/14/2021 10:03 am  #70


Re: I bawt a Tesla

There are capacitive "force touch' buttons on the steering yoke and if it's like the new model S and X there are the usual two rocker thumb wheels we can't see

https://electrek.co/2021/01/27/tesla-new-steering-wheel-force-touch-buttons-autopilot-sensors/

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4/14/2021 10:20 am  #71


Re: I bawt a Tesla

glatt wrote:

I would think a car like that would be fun to drive, rather than be a passenger as the car drives itself.
 

I am the opposite.  I want a robot car that takes me everywhere while I read or take a nap.


Weaponized Funk
 

4/14/2021 11:05 am  #72


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Sittin' in a dentist's chair while HAL goes 250 in a 20.
 

 

4/14/2021 11:46 am  #73


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Diaphone Jim wrote:

Sittin' in a dentist's chair while HAL goes 250 in a 20.
 

There's probably a downside, though.


Weaponized Funk
 

4/14/2021 2:00 pm  #74


Re: I bawt a Tesla

Still, 0-60 MPH in 1.9 seconds has got to be breathtaking. I'm not sure I've ever accelerated in anything that fast, even at an amusement park.

Jet liners don't take off that fast, Rollercoasters either.  Maybe one of those compressed air launchers or slingshots at an amusement park.

 

4/14/2021 3:05 pm  #75


Re: I bawt a Tesla

And the single boldest thing in that cockpit: only ONE cupholder

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