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3/08/2024 4:09 am  #1


Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Is it the Q word like the N word? It seems to me there is a lot of unnecessary specificity in self descriptions.
I figure do what you want by yourself or with one or more consenting adults.
Except lesbians, they're competition... boo hiss. LoL





 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
 

3/08/2024 7:59 pm  #2


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Hmmm... within the past few weeks there was an article on my news page with a first-hand account of someone discovering she was abrosexual. It was described differently from what your image says. I searched for and found that article. There are some advertising interruptions that you have to scroll down past to resume reading the story; but, it's interesting:

I'm abrosexual - it took me 30 years to realise

(Edited for typo.) 

Last edited by Anon (3/08/2024 8:00 pm)

 

3/08/2024 8:12 pm  #3


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

I believe "Queer" has is one of those reclaimed words where they "took the power back" and now Queer is a good, descriptive word for a category of atypical identity/orientations.

I'm not sure, but "Queers" sounds like something you wouldn't say, for the same reason you wouldn't say "Blacks," or "the Blacks" even though "Black people" would be fine.
 

Last edited by Flint (3/08/2024 8:12 pm)


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3/10/2024 3:30 pm  #4


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

The labels on the Chameleons came with the art. Because the names were a mystery to me I had to poke around the net for descriptions. It was all confusing as people would describe that definition in their own way, own language, and maybe there own take on it.
The bottom line is I might have misunderstood their point on some, but I got the overall impression they are trying to put a fine point on broad feelings.
Sex is more complicated than all our other dealings with other people because of the baggage attached.
Affection has it's baggage too but not as much or as severe.
Then there are silly people who feel getting married will solve everything, presto changeo.
And the lawyers laughed and laughed.

You mean I can't say Blacks any more as well... and Indians... and Crackers...  ad infinitum?
Maybe in addition to spell check we need a PCcheck.
 


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
     Thread Starter
 

3/11/2024 12:32 pm  #5


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Human social conventions are nebulous and not defined by strict logic, so anyone looking for  "a list of what I'm allowed to say" is not even in the right ball field. I can just tell you that "blacks" sounds like something Archie Bunker would say. It sounds objectifying, and reductive. It doesn't pass the "cringe-meter"

Different people will have a different cringe-meter. This is why we say of people, "he's from a different time," or judge older artistic works on a sliding scale of social cohesion.

I think the goal is, if a group of 'people who are different from me' communicate their perspective, on a subject which I have no experience, I add it to a list of things I try to remember, out of basic common courtesy. For the same reason, I trust mathematicians or other experts who are more knowledgeable than me in a particular subject. To not do so, is to be a person driving the wrong way down the highway, and getting mad that people are honking.

Last edited by Flint (3/11/2024 12:33 pm)


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3/11/2024 5:36 pm  #6


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Just put a tiny line on the letter 'r'.   They cannot ban the word "Queen".  It's not cricket

 

3/12/2024 9:16 am  #7


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Flint wrote:

Human social conventions are nebulous and not defined by strict logic, so anyone looking for  "a list of what I'm allowed to say" is not even in the right ball field. I can just tell you that "blacks" sounds like something Archie Bunker would say. It sounds objectifying, and reductive. It doesn't pass the "cringe-meter"

Different people will have a different cringe-meter. This is why we say of people, "he's from a different time," or judge older artistic works on a sliding scale of social cohesion.

I think the goal is, if a group of 'people who are different from me' communicate their perspective, on a subject which I have no experience, I add it to a list of things I try to remember, out of basic common courtesy. For the same reason, I trust mathematicians or other experts who are more knowledgeable than me in a particular subject. To not do so, is to be a person driving the wrong way down the highway, and getting mad that people are honking.

Well said, Flint!


Living life on the edge.
 

3/12/2024 2:48 pm  #8


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

thanks, I have my moments


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3/12/2024 6:33 pm  #9


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

I have this queer feeling I do not understand what the problem is.
 

 

3/12/2024 6:51 pm  #10


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

He really said it!

Mark yer calendars folks!


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3/13/2024 8:28 am  #11


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

A Trump lover has no idea what civility is.  The word has too many letters.
 

 

3/13/2024 9:14 am  #12


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

I think the "problem" is basically the conflict between being concerned about yourself versus being concerned about the well being of other people.

I think the goal should be "basic common courtesy" at a minimum.  At the same time, we hear that we should stick up for ourselves and not be door mats, so finding the balance is the key.

How much should my brain have to relearn to have "basic common courtesy" and how much is really too much and more than should be expected?  In my lifetime, I have experienced, as I'm sure many of you have as well, a steady drumbeat of PC changes as things that were common and acceptable are no longer acceptable.  I think it's a good thing to be always striving to improve ourselves and improve society, but I've noticed that incremental changes tend to be accepted much more readily than significant changes.  Flint's driving against the flow of traffic analogy is a great one to show an example where an individual isn't keeping up with generally accepted social norms.  On the other hand, I think that it's very possible for an individual to surround themselves with like-minded individuals and believe that they know what the new norms are, when they are actually just in a bubble.  When my bubble bumps up against your bubble, we find that we have wildly different ideas of what the norms should be.

Obviously, as a society, we should be talking about this stuff, but we all know what the current climate is and how much talking is really happening.

 

3/13/2024 12:23 pm  #13


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

[Deleted because it's definitely false. My bad for not running down the source. Stay off the internet, y'all.]

...But we also don't have to assume that misunderstandings are intentional. If I say something we're not allowed to say anymore, let me know and I'll do my best not to say it. But you've also got to cut people some slack for not knowing, or accidentally saying something that they're still un-learning. Outrage does not make people change; it makes them dig in harder.
 

Last edited by Clodfobble (3/13/2024 6:48 pm)

 

3/13/2024 4:16 pm  #14


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

I'm too lazy to Google something so trivial, but the Anderson Cooper quote doesn't seem real to me. There's no way an educated person could not know the older meaning of the word gay. The more I think about it, that's just stupidly impossible. I am calling this, with no backup. This is fake, low-effort outrage bait. Convince me otherwise. Or don't, it really doesn't matter.

Clodfobble wrote:

But you've also got to cut people some slack for not knowing, or accidentally saying something that they're still un-learning. Outrage does not make people change; it makes them dig in harder.
 

This is a great perspective, where it applies, but since 2016, when Andy Richter tweeted, "It's a great time to be alive if you're dumb and mean," we've been living in a world where intentional malice is considered a virtuous form of points-scoring in a cULtUrE wAr against baby-eating lizard people.

 


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3/13/2024 6:49 pm  #15


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

You're 100% right, Flint--after running down the quote, which is in a ton of places, it turns out the original source is the blog of a guy who writes satire. The internet fucking sucks.

 

3/14/2024 2:20 am  #16


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Stay sharp. Examine the details. I didn't even read the whole quote, I skimmed through it enough to confirm the necessary premise that it's based upon-- that an articulate English speaker, a public speaker by profession, doesn't know the meaning of common English words from the 20th century. There's just no way that could be true. Not even if it was a "bad guy" from "the other team" would I believe that.

It's like the other day when Trump spoke at CPAC, and all the news articles said he is so confused and dementia-riddled that he called his wife "Mercedes" instead of Melania. I was curious, I watched the video. He was talking about his wife, then he addresses a comment to someone off camera. The organizer of CPAC has a wife named MERCEDES. There's no question that's who he was referring to, it's patently obvious. All the news articles said he forgot his wife's name.

By the way, there are hundreds of legitimate examples that he is confused and dementia-riddled, but this isn't one of them, and it doesn't contribute anything to write that article.


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3/14/2024 6:27 am  #17


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

The bubble that folks live is in conflict with other's need to be understood, even when wrong, whether left, right, or center.I think most of us can agree insurrection is too far. I need to understand my own reaction to Trump Trains as being maybe similar to a right winger seeing a BLM protest. Both groups need to be heard but there are enough bad actors to end discourse immediately. Everyone has lived experience and have had the education they've had so understanding is important. That said, the right's passion for destroying public education is about maintaining the bubbles which threaten democracy, which is pretty infuriating.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
 

3/14/2024 9:13 am  #18


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

Flint wrote:

  we've been living in a world where intentional malice is considered a virtuous form of points-scoring in a cULtUrE wAr against baby-eating lizard people. 

Adults who are still children will always exist.  They worship the bully on a playground.  He is not intelligent or constructive.  And yet admired by many who make decisions only from what they feel.

An adult sees a bully for what he really is.  But that means thinking logically; not emotionally.  Many adults (who are still children) do not realize they are only thinking emotionally.  Inspired by what they feel; not by first learning facts.

Propaganda and advertising target the emotional.  A soundbite is all that a bully or his fan needs to know (feel) everything.

Sex is relevant only to a person having it.  How one has sex is always irrelevant to all others - who are responsible.  But that means thinking logically.  Some adults are still children.  Then use hate to condemn (demean) how another has sex.
 

Last edited by tw (3/14/2024 9:16 am)

 

3/14/2024 12:49 pm  #19


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

griff wrote:

That said, the right's passion for destroying public education is about maintaining the bubbles which threaten democracy, which is pretty infuriating.

Propagandizing public education and circumventing the functions of democracy are objectively bad actions from the perspective of a conscientious citizen, but the Right isn't even arguing this point, they just say the OTHER TEAM is "propagandizing public education and circumventing the functions of democracy" --it's the "I'm rubber and you're glue" argument, which is perfectly effective to an un-critical listener.

And just to ensure I'm making the same mistake, I never accept anything from either side un-critically. We need public education to teach rudimentary logic and reasoning, especially in regards to media literacy.

Of course, public education is funded based on property taxes, thus ensuring that lower socioeconomic citizens have less access to a quality education, so without addressing that fundamental inequality, anything "that should/shouldn't be" taught in school is disproportionately distributed, based on the centrally important division of the citizenry-- the amount of money you have.
 


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3/16/2024 10:50 pm  #20


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

There was a piece in the Washington Post today called the Hero. It's a long read about a shooting in a primarily queer bar, and gave the background stories on most of the people there, especially the Hero Rich Fierro who's wife owned the bar.
Reading was interesting but every once in awhile he'd start using them and they about a single person and I'd have to back up and figure out what was going on. It's really annoying in print, I think those pronouns were created expressly to avoid confusion in print. Talking to someone is a whole different ballgame than reading. You can mispronounce every other word and still be understood.
It looks like Flint was right about using queer, in this whole long article I only saw it used once by itself, whereas many times in conjunction like queer people, queer bar, queer family. In WAPO I would expect it to be politically correct... at least for today, tomorrow who  knows. LoL


 Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose.
 
     Thread Starter
 

3/17/2024 7:38 am  #21


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

The pronoun thing smooths out with practice but that bubble thing comes into play.


If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis Brandeis
 

3/17/2024 11:16 am  #22


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

If I tried the new way, I would probably f it up and get everybody pissed off and not know why. 
Sticking with the old one.

 

3/19/2024 9:01 am  #23


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

So that you're... guaranteed to fuck it up and get everybody pissed off, but know exactly why?

 

3/19/2024 10:42 am  #24


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

OK, give me the rules so that I can do it "right."

 

3/19/2024 11:27 am  #25


Re: Not allowed to say Queers anymore?

You can start simple.  If someone says they are a "he" refer to them as "he", if they say they are a "she", refer to them as "she."  If they prefer "they"  then refer to them as "they."  Do your best.  If you make a mistake, know you did your best, but apologize. Be kind.

 

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