The Cellar » US to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by September 11, 2021.

henry_quirk · 8/18/2021 8:03 am

What's wrong with how we're leaving?

I trust, at the time you read this, you have your answer, yes?

Happy Monkey · 8/18/2021 10:24 am

henry_quirk wrote:
I trust, at the time you read this, you have your answer, yes?

Why? Did something answer it in the last 24 hours?

Last edited by Happy Monkey (8/18/2021 10:25 am)

henry_quirk · 8/18/2021 11:32 am

Happy Monkey wrote:
henry_quirk wrote:
I trust, at the time you read this, you have your answer, yes?
Why? Did something answer it in the last 24 hours?

TV, radio, computer, newspaper: over and over and...

Or mebbe you've watched and listened to the broadcasts, read the reporting and commentary, and say to yourself, this is fine...

okay

Happy Monkey · 8/18/2021 12:18 pm

Nothing in particular? You're just generally unhappy because of media?

The question isn't whether things are fine, it's whether we could have made it better.

henry_quirk · 8/18/2021 12:37 pm

I can't imagine you truly don't know how botched our withdrawal is, and I got no interest in plumbin' your motivations for actin' clueless.

So: I'll just stop.

Happy Monkey · 8/18/2021 12:42 pm

As you please, I guess. You didn't actually start.

Flint · 8/18/2021 1:59 pm

henry_quirk is a good boy-- the media told him to be upset without thinking into it too deeply

henry_quirk · 8/18/2021 4:34 pm

Flint wrote:
henry_quirk is a good boy-- the media told him to be upset without thinking into it too deeply

Good on you: you made a funny... 👍

tw · 8/18/2021 7:30 pm

Undertoad wrote:
Two years later, the very same agencies had a memo on George Jr's desk that said Iraq has WMDs.

That was a lie from Fox News. Other responsible news services (that you portrayed as three ignorant monkeys - see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil) were saying something different.

Intelligence analysts, constantly, could not discover where all that disinformation came from. Return to 2003 when you were told this. Cheney was taking raw intelligence. Then inventing his own facts.

Special forces had captured a van making biological weapons. Reality: they captured a trailer for filling weather balloons. Using creek water to make hydrogen since that was only water available. As a result, biological material was found in hardware.

It was biological. Cheney claimed it was a trailer for making biological weapons.

No intelligence agency put those memos on George Jr's desk. Only blatant and intentional misinformation by Cheney, et al made those fictional claims. That were repeated by Fox News..

You were confronted with this reality in 2003. Refused to admit it was all a lie even months after George Jr admitted it was all a lie. I would expect you to admit your mistakes, remain quiet and move on. But you cannot. An example of one lied to and routinely educated by Fox News, et al.

I have no problem constantly exposing those right wing extremist lies but again. We all know those were lies. Even all intelligence agencies keep asking one another which agency was reporting this. Then a week later, they all discovered, "no one". No problem. The anti-American right wing extremists had already buried those lies with many more. You simply forgot to notice so many leaks that later said no such intelligence existed.

Fox News would never admit that reality.

Discussed in 2003 - when you kept insisting Saddam had WMDs. And ignored all honest news sources. So brainwashed as to keep citing Fox News - as if that is honesty.

Fox News even denied that people in the Superdome and Convention Center had no food and water for three days. That video, from Fox News, was posted in the Cellar. And still you believe Fox News is honest?

griff · 8/19/2021 5:55 am

lol It's all good.
We all knew we'd get some old cellar copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-zf2UBp7fY
the end was so sudden
He was in intensive care for 8 weeks!

Flint · 8/19/2021 2:25 pm

reality hits you hard, bro

xoxoxoBruce · 8/21/2021 5:44 pm

We lasted a lot longer than the Russians.
They invaded to control the Afghans but then got us to do it for them.
Hmm, does that mean they're smarter than us?

griff · 8/22/2021 7:15 am

We ignored the French experience in Vietnam and the Russian one in Afghanistan, I wonder how long until we get stupid again? Meanwhile, if none of this had happened we could have assisted Haiti...

tw · 8/22/2021 4:32 pm

xoxoxoBruce wrote:
Hmm, does that mean they're smarter than us?

When the Russians were defeated militarily, then pulled out. When we were defeated militarily, instead we went back in in 2008. Russians did not waste $2 trillion for no reason. Russia did not leave the Taliban with one of the world's largest inventory of working and advanced military hardware.

What were the lessons of Nam and Afghanistan? As defined by Art of War some 2,500 years ago, victory is to forces that control the land. What did we not do in Nam and Afghanistan? Surrended most of the land to the enemy.

The lesson of Hamberger Hill demonstrated how American commanders were so ignorant as to waste the 101 Airborne for no purpose. With many comanies of the 187th suffering 50% and 75% casulties. What did America do after capturing the hill? Search and destroy. Surrender land back to the enemy. Foolish strategy was to kill as many enemy as possible. - body counts. And so the US military claimed to kill three times the population of N Vietnam. Lying happens when .... 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.

Similar lies were used in Afghanista. After wiinning militarily in 2002, the US decided to surrender in Afghanistan. To waste efforts in Iraq on a threat that did not exist. By 2005, the Taliban retook most of Afghanistan.

US strategy was holding onto population centers - not the land. And so the Taliban continued to gain strength - as defined 2500 years ago. Similar mistake was made in .... Deja vue Nam. The term repeatedly posted in the 2000s in the old Cellar to describe what would be the American defeat in Afghanistan - that is finally obvous.

Meanwhile, the Taliban is now one of the world's best equipped military force. Because our leaders by in 2000s lie to us and themselves. About Afghanistan and about Iraq. Just like the US did in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.

Last edited by tw (8/22/2021 5:09 pm)

griff · 8/28/2021 8:25 am

Something to monitor and push back on are the talking heads from "think tanks" funded by mercenary contractors. CACI's funding of Study of War is one. This is no time to start listening to the Kagens, Chaneys, and Kristols again. We gave them unlimited treasure and blood for twenty years, be prepared to tell them to fuck right off.

Diaphone Jim · 8/28/2021 12:09 pm

I hope we find out what Marine commander ordered a platoon or more to expose itself in a mob of thousands of panicked Afghanis.
Reports had them there as sitting ducks for days.
Military fucked for twenty years and then up to the very last.

tw · 8/29/2021 10:11 am

Start asking serious questions. A battalion in the airport could automatically become prisoners in a few days. Taliban now has more weapons than those Americans. Americans military units can only leave if the Taliban decides to permit it. Rescue is all but impossible.

Why do the Taliban have so many (and in some cases, superior) weapons? They overran one of the world's best equipped Army - the Afghan Army.