The Cellar » Blame the Workers?

tw · 7/30/2022 8:13 am

So many people so hated America as to keep buying crappy products using the 'Buy American' lie. As a result, 20 years later, Americans had to lose their jobs.

Roger Smith (a business school graduate) bought Hugh Electronics on the theory that heads up displays (HUD) were the future for cars. It never happened, in part, because Roger Smith (president of GM) did not even drive. He spend massively on concepts only justified by spread sheets. As a result, that once profitable Hughes Electronics became unprofitable. GM went into bankruptcy.

To keep enriching the Central Committee of the Communist party (top management), GM then cut pension funds from their employees.

GM, once a patriotic company until business school graduates took over, has but again dumped its costs on all of us. Those business school graduates would have been removed had we, as a nation, believed in the free market. Buy the best.

Well that is what we are now doing. Most cars made in America have foreign nameplates. Because 30 years ago, the anti-Americans decided the purpose of a company is profits - not its product.

So many disaster because so many Americans kept buying crap known as Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Oldsmobile, and Cadillac. Even Saturn, that tried to innovate, was chopped off by management that did not even drive cars.

Dumping the cost of pension funds on all other taxpayers is exactly what anti-Americans do who also stifled innovation in Kodak, GE, Unisys, HP, Xerox, AT&T, and a long list of other companies.

Who to blame? Americans who stupidly asked to be brainwashed by lies. Such as "purpose of a company is profits". "Buy American." "Blame overpaid union workers." "Cost controls". These same people say it is good that GE paid almost no and sometimes no taxes over many decades.

What determines profits today? Not the work done today. Profits only come from the innovations that happened four, ten, and twenty years ago. Look back at what GM did to Hughes Electronics to appreciate why the Gini index is getting worse.

Once, top management was paid 17 times more than the average employee. Today (with George Jr's tax cut and with Trump giving tax cuts only to the rich), that number is now something like 500 times.

fargon · 7/30/2022 11:58 am

Screw you tw, I own two GM vehicles and I'm pleased with both of them. Both have given me years of trouble free service. They are a 2015 Buick Encore, and a 2013 Chevrolet Silverado. I don't know where you are getting your information, but I have been driving General motors vehicles for over 40 years and have had no serious problems with any of them. All you have to do is maintain them properly.

tw · 7/31/2022 10:19 am

fargon wrote:
Screw you tw, I own two GM vehicles and I'm pleased with both of them.

A patriotic American would say why - not post his feelings. Thank you for contributing to the destruction of American jobs. Telling America it enrich business school graduates. Those same business school graduates harmed engineer pension funds. Dumping that expense on American taxpayers. You approve - emotionally.

Due to things done even back by Roger Smith, So GM autos do not export well throughout the world. He even bought Hughes Electronics using emotions similar to yours. More job losses. Approved of by consumers who are emotional.

GM products only innovate when government requires it. Or when part suppliers provide higher quality parts since higher quality was demanded by foreign manufacturers. Only company in the world that made a hybrid where its engine cannot recharge its battery: GM. Chevy Volt. How dumb it that. Some Americans so hated America as to even buy that scam.

An inferior product requires wheel alignment annually. Innovative vehicles do not require wheel alignment. Apparently you think that is also acceptable. More emotions. No facts.

tw · 7/31/2022 10:19 am

Undertoad wrote:
Roger Smith has been dead for 15 years

And what he did to destroy American jobs continues.

fargon · 7/31/2022 12:19 pm

tw the proof is in the pudding. My two GM vehicles are fantastic examples of American engineering and craftsmanship. And I am quite pleased with them. I neither know, nor do I care to know who Roger Smith is all I know is he made some fine automobiles.

tw · 7/31/2022 3:16 pm

fargon wrote:
tw the proof is in the pudding.

An example of the poor design for GM cars

How often should you get an alignment? Chevrolet alignment mileage interval?

When should you get an alignment for your car? The solution can differ slightly by manufacturer. You should always check your maintenance manual to learn the best mileage or time interval, but commonly your Chevrolet will require an alignment every 5,000 or 10,000 miles.

Hondas never had camber or caster adjuster that must be constantly reset. Since those cars are designed by 'car guys' (patriots) - not by 'bean counters'. Terms used in the auto industry.

Why must government restore pensions to so many GM employees? Because GM only wants to make profits - the product be damned for over 40 years. GM has a long history of harming Americans to enrich top management. A trend that was obvious even when Roger Smith was GM's president.

Why do most cars, manufactured in America, have foreign nameplates? Some in America so hated this country as to vote for the business school graduates who create failures, stifle innovation, and then blame the workers (ie unions). (Same type people also created Flint MI water.) The emotional vote to harm American by denying what made America great. Free markets. Buy the best.

Consumer Reports has demonstrated GM's inferiority for decades. An extremist mentality: ignore and deny facts. Blindly follow what one is ordered to believe. Right out of the book "1984". And Saddam's WMDs.

One will only post emotions - constantly. Another says why with facts, numbers, and many decades of history.

Why would anyone buy a car that must have its wheel alignment checked / adjusted every 10,000 miles? Only emotions say that is good.

Why would anyone think a hybrid, where its engine cannot even recharge its battery, must be from a responsible auto manufacturer? Again, only emotions say that is good.

TheNeverWas · 7/31/2022 6:01 pm

I wouldn't blink at $80 for a four wheel alignment (TW's link). And neither would TW. Y'know, if she were sane.

Last edited by TheNeverWas (7/31/2022 6:04 pm)

TheNeverWas · 7/31/2022 6:03 pm

tw wrote:
...ignore and deny facts...

You're quite good at that, you know.

TheNeverWas · 7/31/2022 6:17 pm

TW, what make/model vehicle do you drive?

tw · 7/31/2022 6:59 pm

Back in 1974, I drove a 5 speed with a four cylinder engine, no air pump, well over 30 MPG, and seats that provided back support. Once DeLorean (last of the GM engineers) left, then business school graduates removed that 5 speed (claiming nobody wanted a 5 speed). Replaced that Holley 5210C carburetor with one of the world's worst (a GM Rochester). Then, because it was dumping so much unburned fuel down the exhaust pipe, they had to install an air pump. To burn off fuel in the exhaust pipe (rather then in the engine). Replaced that comfortable seat with styrofoam that provided no back support. Replaced that wood grain dashboard with what looked like aluminum foil. Literally did what a business school graduate would do to increase profits.

That may have been a last GM car designed by an engineer. Have been buying superior (therefore patriotic) cars.

Next car was so patriotic that my first set of tires went 107,000 miles. Next one was a disappointment - I only got 98,000 miles from the first set of tires.

What matters are facts with numbers. What I experienced was also reiterated in Consumer Reports.

Learned an awful lot about cars because American cars failed so often. GM engines being so pathetic. They needed a V-6 in later versions of that car. First one I studied - carburetor choke plate would stick closed.

Numbers that made so many angry. Performance: Horsepower per liter. Why did GM need V-8 engines? GM cars needs more pistons just to be same horsepower. Since GM engines were among the world's lowest performance. Ironically, engines that made foreign models superior in the 1990s were developed in GM in 1972 and kept out of the market. Until patriotic car companies learned of and implemented those innovations.

View facts and numbers. Why would anyone waste time with subjective make and model names?

Since GM products cost more to build (ie needed two extra pistons), then who did GM blame? The workers. Then dumping pension fund obligations on American taxpayers. After having constantly shorted those pension funds to claim higher profits.

Mary Barra discovered some 15 GM top executives lied to her about the Cobalt. A car that was killing people when both brakes and steering failed simultaneously. Due to a defective design. No different than a hybrid where the engine cannot even recharge its battery. Why would anyone vote for and protect such companies?

TheNeverWas · 8/01/2022 4:27 pm

TheNeverWas wrote:
TW, what make/model vehicle do you drive?

You did address the question, which is more than I've ever seen you do, I'll give you that much. But, you didn't answer the question.

If you are capable of answering the question, please do so. I know I'm not the only one who would like to know, after reading what you think of GM cars, and the promotion of American jobs, what kind of vehicle I should go out and buy.

monster · 8/01/2022 9:54 pm

TheNeverWas wrote:
TheNeverWas wrote:
TW, what make/model vehicle do you drive?
You did address the question, which is more than I've ever seen you do, I'll give you that much. But, you didn't answer the question.

85% of us would like to know.

FWIW, here in Motown environs, all companies -domestic and not- are laying off workers left right and center and outsourcing to India by splitting job responsibilities into two or more parts so they are not directly replacing American workers. This is not looking good.

tw · 8/01/2022 9:55 pm

Undertoad wrote:
What model Honda, is the question

Irrelevant for same reason I do not select apples based upon the farmer's name. Specifications matter.

Cited was experience learned because some automakers (ie GM) stopped making products with better numbers. Stifled innovation to cut costs on this year's bottom line. Roger Smith and a long list of predecessors did not even drive cars. The above pension fund dumped on the American public directly traceable to Roger Smith who destroyed productivity at what was once a productive Hughes Electronics.

Make / model is irrelevant. Posted were numbers and resulting experience that applies to all cars. One can learn same from Consumer Reports. Those facts said which models would be successfully five years later.

BTW, never expect honest answers from Motor Trend. Among their 'Car of the Year' were Chevy Vega , Chevy Caprice (famous for routine transmission failures), Dodge Aspen and Omni (both contributed massively to Chrysler's bankruptcy years later), Chevy Citation, many pathetic Cadillacs, and Chevy Volt (whose engine could not even recharge its own battery).

The naive look at models, advertising hype, and 'pretty'. Not at things that matter: facts and specifications. Inferiority was apparent year earlier in an obvious number: Horsepower per liter.

Question was clearly answered. Name is irrelevant to this topic. Topic is so many jobs lost due to fascination with things that do not matter. And a long history of stifled innovation. Encouraged by many anti-Americans who bought American. Who demonstrated contempt for free markets. Who openly encouraged more products with missing innovations.

Another example of jobs lost is Lordstown. GM promised they would bring back workers by making electric trucks. Nobody cares what the make / model name of that truck would be. Facts said that design sucked. It had to. GM management is so dumb as to make decisions only from its accounting department. Business school graduates designed that crap that could never get into production. Another example of a corporation making promises to American workers it cannot keep.

Make and model name again irrelevant. Product does matter. Unfortunately many Americans protected incompetent management. Kept buying GM crap. Even bought cars that required wheel alignment every 5,000 to 10,000 miles. Make and model says nothing about that crap. Numbers say the product is why jobs were lost. And why more pensions were dumped on the American taxpayer.

Foxconn bought Lordstown. A semiconductor and electronics manufacturer from Taiwan. Even an electronics manufacturer can do what GM cannot. GM could not get anything into production. Recently purchased Lordstown will be producing products in about 18 months. Patriots are doing what GM management could not.

Who manufacturers Apple phones? Not GM - whose inferior designs, starting 50 years ago, have resulted in five decades of downsizing, job destruction, and now more burdens on the American taxpayer. GM could not even make OnStar profitable - long before Foxconn started making Apple phones. A problem made obvious long ago by a long list of innovations stifled by bean counters. Eventually those innovations appeared in patriotic (foreign) products.

Make and model name say nothing about inferior designs inside a GM product. But it apparently matters to those who would destroy American jobs by "Buying American".

tw · 8/01/2022 10:02 pm

monster wrote:
FWIW, here in Motown environs, all companies -domestic and not- are laying off workers left right and center

A serious shortage of workers exist. Unemployment is at an all time (and unsustainable) low. Only place where products are outsourced: a serious shortage of experienced workers exist.

Most common reason for temporary layoffs: a shortage of parts. Again due to supply chains that cannot find enough experienced workers. What parts are hardest to come by? Semiconductor shortages are a primary reason why car factories must do shutdowns.

Make and model name again irrelevant to the topic or that problem.

monster · 8/01/2022 10:06 pm

^ most of this (post before last) is bollocks filler but....

Very few "American" cars are really American. Ford -for example- has been assembling cars outside the US "forever" (we bought two brand new Fords when we came here 20+ years ago, and even then one was assembled in Canada and one in Mexico). GM just stuffed a load of workers. On the other hand, some of the "foreign" brands are doing OK and hiring shit-tons of local, American workers. Production line, but it's food in the mouths of American workers' families

Last edited by monster (8/01/2022 10:08 pm)

tw · 8/01/2022 11:32 pm

monster wrote:
Very few "American" cars are really American.

Then the point is grasped. If the world's best car was made in 1957 Moscow, then patriotic Americans bought it. Why were cars in 1957 Moscow shit? They were also designed by the Central Committee of the Party. Not by people who come from where the work gets done. Facts and spec numbers said so.

Why is GM constantly downsizing? Someone praised GM management using 'buy American' reasoning.

Why is Ford not as bad as GM? Remember that 1972 four cylinder engine that GM tried to keep out of America? In 2000, William Clay Ford (who had a driver's license) demanded that Ford start designing all products with engines of that or superior innovation. Rick Wagoner, a business school graduate, instead lied. He said there is nothing wrong with GM products. The problem was in the economy.

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. When the guy (who created so many job losses) blames others, then 99% of all problems are directly traceable to him. Wagoner was just another in a long line of Roger Smiths - who eventually dumped pension funds onto the American taxpayer.

Why? You don't care where it is made - if an American patriot. You do not even care about the make / model. A worshiper of free markets buys the best. Only then do American companies kill off their anti-American management.

Well GM and Chrysler were so anti-American that Obama had to step in. Nardelli in Chrysler and Wagoner in GM were both fired. This American president easily identified fools (business school graduates).

Remember the Cobalt? A car that was killing its drivers? Mary Barra finally discovered 15 executive knew it for years and covered it up. Even lied to her. Apparently CBS News had to tell her what was really happening. Why? Because so many Americans so hated America as to keep buying GM products. Their lies and coverups were personally profitable. And protected by so many who kept buying that car.

Since so many Americans protected the problem, taxpayers are now paying for pensions of backstabbed GM workers. Even Foxconn - an electronics company - will build vehicles where GM could not.

Why does GMs quality increase. So many part suppliers are now from other nations. Are using a concept pioneered in the Bell Labs and taught to the world by William Edwards Deming (et al). Deming long taught the enemy of quality and innovation were business schools and their graduates. Patriots now buy products with more foreign parts. Because foreigners learned from Deming, et al. Nardelli and Wagoner could not. They (like George Jr and Trump - also business school graduates) cannot / did not learn.

You don't care where parts are made. If a patriotic American (not someone who believes lies about 'buy local'), then buy the best. A free market mentality. Had everyone stopped buying GM crap, then those jobs would have been saved. Crap management would have been removed. Then innovation (like in the 1950s and 60s) could start again.

Only jobs that can be saved are those that exist five and 15 years from now. Jobs being lost today are due to actions by liars and business school graduates ten and 20 years ago. We vote to save jobs in 10 years by what we purchase / consume today. All those GM jobs would still exist if most all Americans bought Honda and Toyota. Only then would GM fix their only problem.

Last edited by tw (8/01/2022 11:40 pm)