The Cellar » Got Cars

TheNeverWas · 2/27/2023 8:48 pm

Here's a poser:
Every time I put gas in this new-to-me-Cadillac, get back in and start the engine, the starter doesn't want to disengage. It starts, but the starters nose gear stays engaged, and starting, and it doesn't seem to realize the engine wants to run but can't because the starter will only let the engine spin so fast. Only happens when I put gas in.

Freak-y.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them, I think this could get expensive.

TheNeverWas · 2/27/2023 8:49 pm

If it happened every time trying to start the car, I'd think it was the starter or starter solenoid, but it's only when I get gas.

tw · 2/28/2023 11:00 am

TheNeverWas wrote:
Here's a poser:
... engine wants to run but can't because the starter will only let the engine spin so fast.

That nose on a starter always has a ratchet. Starter will always turn an engine so fast. If the engine tries to turn faster, the nose gear just spins - as if disconnected from the starter.

Some starters would engage that nose gear and never withdraw it. Then its ratchet would eventually fail as the engine constantly spun it at all higher speeds.

Engine will always spin at a speed of that starter motor - or faster. When that starter's nose gear is engaged to the flywheel.

Is this a computer controlled starter? Or one that operates only when an ignition key is turned to 'start'?

TheNeverWas · 2/28/2023 9:34 pm

Thanks guys.
I found that purge valve info, too, but, for some reason I can't recall, I dismissed it as not the problem I got. I'll have to go back and read through that again. Seems to gibe....

Thx again.

glatt · 3/01/2023 7:49 am

Yeah, I immediately thought it had to do with the whole gas tank pressure and evap system. But no idea how that would impact it I'm not familiar with GM cars

footfootfoot · 3/01/2023 9:53 am

uploading pictures
Saw this in Wilmington, VT the other day. I felt almost famous. The last time I saw this in person I was but a mere tad.

glatt · 3/01/2023 11:49 am

Awesome! I think I saw one coming the other way on the other side of the highway once, but might be misremembering.

Diaphone Jim · 3/01/2023 1:04 pm

Caddy
Seems like you've had that ride most of a year. Did this just start (so to speak)?
Does it quit doing it on its own? How soon after fill-up? Or how many starts?
It can't be good for the starter.

glatt · 3/01/2023 3:51 pm

Does this Caddy have a fancy gas tank door opener that is electronic instead of manual release? Maybe a fuse/wire harness issue? I don't know how that would cause it, but the drunken angry pixies in the wires might be doing something.

TheNeverWas · 3/01/2023 7:20 pm

The gas door does not lock at all. This car cost $58,000 and change in 2008 and the gas door does not lock. Just walk up push it in, and it pops open for any damn body.

I don't fill up the tank, stopped that a long time ago, when I drove junkers, don't want fifty bucks' worth of gas in a car that I can't drive til it gets back from the shop. With no gas left in it.

The only time I fill-up/top off, is on my way outta town on a road trip. This problem happens with $2 or $40. After start-up, I can turn it off right there, and re-start with no problem. Only on the first start after getting gas, any amount, any other time, it starts normally.

This gas door thing reminds me, I was going to do a little write-up on the quirks of this car/truck/crossover/whatever-the-fuck-it-is. Quirks. I got 'em.

I've never seen a vehicle that begs to be lowered like this one does. Two inches lower ride height would make this a different car. It'd prolly make me poor doing it, too.

TheNeverWas · 3/01/2023 7:25 pm

footfootfoot wrote:
Saw this in Wilmington, VT the other day...

It's a footfootfoot long wienermobile!

TheNeverWas · 3/01/2023 7:37 pm

Oh, the problem just started about two, three weeks ago.

Otherwise, I'm kinda pleased with this car (quirks and all). That I did not want...

Last edited by TheNeverWas (3/01/2023 7:39 pm)

griff · 3/02/2023 6:49 am

footfootfoot wrote:
uploading pictures
Saw this in Wilmington, VT the other day. I felt almost famous. The last time I saw this in person I was but a mere tad.

I wish I could remember where/when I saw that. As rare a sighting as hen's teeth.

Diaphone Jim · 3/02/2023 12:29 pm

"After start-up, I can turn it off right there, and re-start with no problem."
Ah. Do that, then.
Prolly a computer thing and good luck with that.

TheNeverWas · 3/02/2023 8:17 pm

Anon wrote:
Have you tried opening the gas cap then closing it without putting gas in and starting the vehicle to see if the problem might be pressure related? Couldn’t hurt to rule that out as a contributing factor if the problem is somewhere in the evap system.

Get. Out. Of my. Head.

Oddly enough, I did that very thing this afternoon. I had just got 3 free gallons of gas (long story) and had the starting problem at the pump. Literally 5 minutes later I'm in my driveway, and thought about it, so I popped my cap, and stood there 5 minutes like an ijit (simulating fueling up) and had no issues on start up.

When I open the cap, there is no pssshht, coming out, nor any insuck going in, either. No pressure, no vacuum.

TheNeverWas · 3/02/2023 8:19 pm

Diaphone Jim wrote:
Do that, then.

Yeah, I'll just skip the first try and go right to the second...

Last edited by TheNeverWas (3/02/2023 8:22 pm)

xoxoxoBruce · 3/06/2023 3:13 am

There shouldn't be any pressure at the cap it should be exiting through the vapor recovery system and probably an escape valve on top of the tank to facilitate filling it up..

This current sensor is something I wasn't aware of...

tw · 3/06/2023 11:48 am

xoxoxoBruce wrote:
This current sensor is something I wasn't aware of...

Long been standard on cars. Routinely found in engineer designed cars in the early 1990s. Using various names such as ELD.

Rather than constantly overcharging a battery, an ELD lowers voltage when the battery does not need much charge. Also increases the life expectancy of other parts such as light bulbs. Current sensor is part of that system. Extends battery life expectancy.

Vapor pressure would only sometimes make a car harder to start. Has nothing to do with why a starter remains connected and spinning excessively.

fargon · 3/06/2023 12:47 pm

"Rather than constantly overcharging a battery, an ELD lowers voltage when the battery does not need much charge."
You mean a Voltage Regulator. What a concept.

TheNeverWas · 3/06/2023 6:52 pm

tw wrote:
Long been standard on cars. Routinely found in engineer designed cars in the early 1990s. Using various names such as ELD.

Rather than constantly overcharging a battery, an ELD lowers voltage when the battery does not need much charge. Also increases the life expectancy of other parts such as light bulbs. Current sensor is part of that system. Extends battery life expectancy.

Vapor pressure would only sometimes make a car harder to start. Has nothing to do with why a starter remains connected and spinning excessively.

The red highlighted text indicates a deficit in the sentence building area...

TheNeverWas · 3/06/2023 6:54 pm

The two different colors of red indicate a deficit in my visual acuity.

xoxoxoBruce · 3/17/2023 12:55 am

Not fond of the green fastback but I'd kill for the blue wagon, the original Nomad.

xoxoxoBruce · 3/25/2023 6:45 am

This guy had an itch, once he got started it took him 8 years to scratch it but he died happier.

xoxoxoBruce · 3/25/2023 6:49 am

Post WWII Ike was a god in Europe, he won the war, so he got money for nothing and chicks for free, as well as an armored Caddy.

xoxoxoBruce · 4/02/2023 5:15 am

This was well executed but I think it was a bad idea. Some think the tri-fives are sacred.
I don't agree with that I've seen some that were well done... but not this one.