Major reason why Arab nations do not want Palestinians to immigrate.  That only does what Israeli extremism advocates.  Stealing the land.  Letting Palestinians flee only makes this problem worse.  Is all but endorsing and encouraging a Zionist concept promoted by Likud. "Screw everyone else.  We are the superior race."

Similar to 1930 Germany.  Where an extremist party had the same philosophy.  Rather ironic.

Sending Palestinians elsewhere is a tactical objective.  Subverts what only matters - a strategic objective.  Many people do not see the bigger picture.   Biden is trying to explain it. A very fine hole exists between two American strategic principles.  Many (extremists on both side) do not appreciate the bigger picture. Due to conclusions based only in soundbites and emotions.  And another factor - hate.
 

Anon wrote:

  A strategic withdrawal out of Palestine would let many of them live to fight another day,  

Since the Palestinians have been using that strategy, then they have retaken Tel Aviv and Jerusalem?   Have regains their homes in Jordan? Will retake all the best land in the West Bank?

Does not work that way.  Likud is performing a superb strategy of ethnic cleansing.  By doing it slowly.  Then (successfully) blaming the Palestinians for objecting (when they should).  Matching violence with violence.

Unfortunately ten or more Palestinians die for every Israeli.  Since Palestinians do not have the powerful propaganda tools that Israeli have.

Eliminate propaganda that targets feelings (all those people crying about dead relatives).  Then what remains are facts.  Israel is doing the next holocaust on 2 million in Gaza.  In a slow and methodical way so that the emotional will ignore that reality.

Israelis even say Palestinians should go back from where they came from.  Where is that?  Expect a massacre.  Done in a manner that we will not see it as a massacre - only as revenge.

We learn from history.  Such as a massacre at Wounded Knee.  Different people.  Different time.  Similar event.  Even done for the same purpose.

Give israelis credit.  They have a superb strategy.  Are successfully playing everyone.  Including other Arab states.
 

Last edited by tw (10/23/2023 8:22 pm)

Apparently assumed is Hamas is also the other 2 million Palestinians.  And nobody is going to take in 2 million Palestinians - even when not Hamas.

Apparently Hamas never expected to be so successful.  Did not expect to justify a holocaust of Palestinians.  Apparently did not think beyond this latest battle.  So and 50 years of war must continue.

Not enough Palestinians or Israelis have died.

Read through what Israel extremist (Likud) are advocating.  A massacre.  They even lie about south Gaza being the safe zone.  All responsible news services report Israelis attacking both north and south Gaza.

Humanitarian aid.  So tiny that it is zero.  But just enough so that emotional people (ie extremists) say Israel is letting humanitarian aid in. No they are not.  Numbers matter.  No rhetoric.

Egypt's quite responsible conclusion remains.  No humanitarian aid.  Then no Americans and Europeans can leave Gaza.  Israel refuses to negotiate.

BTW even Art of War makes an accurate distinction.  Lives are only secondary if land is lost.

Last edited by tw (10/24/2023 10:27 am)

Read in Art of War many things one does not fight for.  Land - always fight for.  What do you say?  Palestinians should abandon their lands to right wing extremist, Israeli settlers?  That is a solution?

Blame all Palestinians for Hamas.  When Hamas has all the weapons.  And when Hamas makes it so easy to recruit; due to what Israeli extremists do.

Blame the victim?  What kind of reasoning is that?   One that does not also blame Israel - actually Likud -  just as guilty.  So blame all Jews because some extremists constantly encourage and promote this 50 years war. So as to keep stealing the land. Blame Palestinians.  Then also blame all Jews.

 

tw wrote:

Read in Art of War many things one does not fight for.  Land - always fight for.  What do you say?

I say your reasoning is antiquated. "The Art of War" is older than the Bible. In those times, land was important because they didn't have the global transportation network we now have to bring in necessities. They had to get them from their local surroundings. Countries today fight for religion, politics, money...etc.; but, not just land anymore. You're grasping at straws. 

tw wrote:

Blame all Palestinians for Hamas.  When Hamas has all the weapons.  And when Hamas makes it so easy to recruit; due to what Israeli extremists do.

Since Israelis exercise control over their extremists, the same is required of Palestinians. Failure is not acceptable.

tw wrote:

Blame the victim?  What kind of reasoning is that?   One that does not also blame Israel - actually Likud -  just as guilty.  So blame all Jews because some extremists constantly encourage and promote this 50 years war. So as to keep stealing the land. Blame Palestinians.  Then also blame all Jews.

Who do you claim to be the victim? Logic dictates that there can be more than one at different points in time. When the masses fail to control the few, the wackos, the extremists... they become enablers and are all to blame.

tw wrote:

Taliban were ordered to surrender bin Laden.  They refused.  They (and not all Afghanistan civilians) were the target.  Iran was also involved.  Also was not attacking civilians.  Were also only attacking Taliban.

But your example, for some reason, claims we and Iran were attacking all Afghanistan civilians....

That's only what you read into it. You have an extreme case of chronic confirmation bias.

tw wrote:

That is your reasoning.  Or the example is bogus.

My reasoning is that we disrupted lives well beyond those targeted. The example is valid. Your interpretation is not.

It seems you've become so wound up that your reading comprehension skills, from the "Art of War" (from between 475 and 221 B.C.E.) to "Remember what we did to Afghanistan..." (10/24/2023) have severely deteriorated. I'll stop posting here so that you can collect yourself. The rest of the thread will be yours just as sure as Gaza will be Israel's.
 

I ain't reading 3 pages. The story is-- big bully terrorizes helpless underdog. If you taught your kids to give bullies a bloody nose, this is not a hard problem.

I'm watching Americans tear each other apart over another team issue. There are no good guys in this only victims and perpetrators.