Zelenskyy cooly and calmly kicked their butts.
And he continued in a Fox interview.
It is hard to believe that Trump and Vance could exceed expectations about how low they can go. 

OTOH, European countries still want Ukraine as a buffer zone between them and Russia.

Again, lessons from history are ignored.  When a despot attacks smaller nations and the 'powers that be' ignore it, then World War is inevitable.  So many still have a Neville Chamberlain mentarity.  Well, we will make a deal and war will be averted.  Bullshit big time.  Only the dumbest humans believe those lies.

A despot will not stop once his domination, theft and murderous ways are appeased.  Trump is doing classic appeasement.   One need only learn lessons from Alexander the Great.  Or Hitler.

Zelensky asked for what must "ALWAYS" exist in any peace settlement.  Security guarantees.   He said that.  Only to be attacked by two right wing extremists.  Who accused him of being ungrateful.  Attacked him emotionally - not logically.  Lectured Zelensky in a demeaning and unceasing manner. Intelligent leaders discuss.  Despots lecture.

This mistake was made previously in Ukraine.  When it gave up nuclear weapons.  Without fundamental security assurances.   Putin is not signing any peace treaty with those guarantees.  A peace settlement is only time to rearm, retrain, and attack again.  Security guarantees would only get in the way of Putin's obvious agenda.  Anyone with minimal intelligence can see that agenda.

Putin knows Trump has no cards to play.  Trump is 100% about making Trump look good.   At the expense of Ukraine, NATO, and America.  He does not care that he is inviting another World War.   He does not care how much damage he does.  That was his many decades of history.  He even praised Al Capone and Putin.

Even making enemies of America's closest allies.  And driving off all future allies even in Asia.  Message is clear.  American can no longer be trusted.  Every country in SE Asia has now shifted to becoming friendlier with China.

Trump gave Putin some major concessions without getting anything in return (except six American prisoners).  So that only Trump looks good to the least educated American citizens - his most powerful supporters.

Trump is throwing Ukraine under the bus.  Exactly as he threw Afghanistan under the bus. But that means duped  Americans must remember recent history.  It was more than three months ago.  So the least informed and strongest Putin supporters intentionally forget that reality.

Trump threw Afghanistan under the bus so that he could look good.  Trump surrendered to the Taliban.  Afghanistan government  was not even allowed at a table where they was backstabbed.

Like Ukraine, Trump never even considered security guarantees for Afghanistan.  He knows how to promote himself while screwing everyone else. 

Zelensky insisted upon security guarantees.  As any responsible and intelligent leader would do.   Instead was attacked and denigrated. Trump, being a despotic child (a bully), will now take revenge on Ukraine.  That is what he has done his entire life.  Use people until he decides to insult them.

Trump knows his supported have no idea how the world works.  Are impressed by his 'big penis' demeanor. Putin knows exactly how to play Trump for a fool.  As so massively obvious in Helsinki in 2018.  And obvious only to those who remember what happened more than three months ago.  Trump duped by Putin was obvious.  Just recently.  And that long ago.

Putin got the American president that he wanted.  Some even in the Cellar approve of Putin's choice for American president.

Ukraine was a first nation to obstruct Putin's conquests.  Previous conquests include Chechnya, the various K-stands, and Georgia.  Next in line looks like Lithuania.  No problem.  Trump is openly advocating the destruction of NATO.  Since that is what Putin needs.  Only those with minimal intelligence would not see the future.

But then Trump is so dumb as to convert a country, that was trying to restore good relations with America, into an enemy.  Deja Vue Vietnam.  America did the exact same thing in the 1960s.   Trump did same to iran.  Those, whose only knowledge comes from a bombastic president, ignore history.  And how it will repeat.

All those intentionally cut fiber optic cables are no accident.  Putin's future plans (and what he needs Trump to do) are painfully obvious to anyone with minimal intelligence.  If not stopped in Ukraine, WWIII is inevitable.  With Trump even driving Iran into becoming Putin supporters.  Even Africa now sees that American is not a reliable or trusted ally.  Most of African is now shifting to become China supporters.

Obvious to anyone who thinks logically; not using penis logic. Impressed by a bully.

This reality is too long.  Makes many obvious points.  Means one must learn how easily they can be manipulated.  So Trump supporters cannot read it.  Myths and lies are easier to understand.  History is wasted time.  Classic Trump logic.
 

Anon wrote:

There are no guarantees in life. Security guarantees are a figment of people’s imaginations.
 

Are you that brainwashed by Vance? 

Best security guarantee is obvious: NATO membership.  So you have lied.  Other security guarantees also exist.  You knew that.  Only an extreme right wing extremists would post lies to protect corrupt extremist.

Trump's entire life has been to screw others only to advance and enrich himself.  Apparently you have as much contempt for America as he has.  So you also praise Al Capone?  And brag how you never pay taxes?

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Anon wrote:

The fantasies of a demented old man.  

You said security guarantees never exist. Bullcrap.  A Nato membership is simply one of many possible security guarantees. Scholz is a thinking adult.  So he can learn new facts and change his mind.

 An all out rearming of Ukraine - without restrictions.  Another example of a security guarantee.

A peace treaty without security guarantees means a larger, future war.  When one learns from history.

Just because Scholz does not agree with only one option somehow proves that NO security guarantees can exist? Bullcrap again. 

Zelensky obviously needs security guarantees.  He is forced to surrender to Russia by Trump to promote Trump.  Without a security guarantee.   Anyone intelligent (a moderate) can see that mistake.

Zelensky must be at the peace table.  Extremists also threw the South Vietnam government and the Afghan government under the bus.   Same negotiations are throwing Zelensky under the bus.  Cutting out the victim so that he can be slaughtered.  Nixon did it.  Then Trump - whose long history is to screw even his former supporters - did it to Afghanistan.

An extremist but again ignores reality.  Reality contradicts his extremist politics.  He could reply with honest reasoning.  Instead he invents a lie.  Saying no security guarantee ever exist.  Then posts insults.  Since he cannot defend his lie.

Defined is how extremist rhetoric works.  Posting cheapshots when disinformation is exposed.

The fantasies of a demented old man.

Only a demented person resorts to cheapshots when they have been exposed lying.   When he cannot contribute one honest fact.  Trump does same.  It is the nature of one with a despot mentality.

Anon now can apologize.  And return to discussing in an adult manner.  Without cheapshots.  He won't if he is a typical and hateful extremist.  We will now see who he really is.

No, I'm not trying to rationalize genocide. I'm saying that every US President has always had unqualified support of Israel. Laying the sins of Israel on Biden's feet alone is not a serious opinion. I think you understood my point perfectly well.

Anon wrote:

You lack standing to discuss security matters. First you must list 5 accomplishments you have achieved this year in support of national security..

Wow.  Elon Musk demanding a "5 accomplishment" list.   A standard once implemented to prove one was also a good Nazi.

Anon attacks rather than contributes facts.  Always indicates an extremist.  A similar example was in the old Cellar.  When this same type reasoning somehow proved Saddam had WMDs.

Basic concepts even defined in Art of War.  Security guarantees MUST exist.  Since he recites only what extremist preach, then he says guarantees cannot exist.

Vance insulted Zelensky with this same lie.  Insisting that Zelensky could have made a deal early on.  When Russia was invading Kiev from the north.  That mythical "deal" would be called surrender - without any security guarantees.  No responsible leader would do that.

Demeaning others is what Anon calls a discussion.  Now with an ultimatum.

You must post them here by Wednesday, at 11:59 p.m. EST. Failure to do so will be treated as indicative of ineptitude .

That is not the attitude of a educated and civil person.  That is the extremist.  Unable to post anything constructive.  Then making despot style demands.

 

The current list of Presidential succession is more than scary.

Obviously, any peace settlement, without security guarantees, is a surrender.

But again, why must well known examples be cited: South Vietnam.  Afghanistan.   Obvious examples ignored since extremist myths might be exposed.

No security guarantees means those, also banned from the peace table, are thrown under the bus.  Ukraine must surrender because they were also not represented.  Why is that an amenable solution?  Extremist rhetoric is alive and well.  Complete with derogatory comments at anyone who exposes this adoration of Putin.  And ignorance of well proven military doctrine.

Obviously, any peace settlement without security guarantees is only a surrender.  Stealing Ukrainian territory is somehow sanctioned by extremist embellishment.

There are no guarantees in life.

  Which explains the military conquest of Kuwait, Japan, South Korea, West Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt.

No guarantees must exist when one is ordered what to believe by a despot.  Tell that to NATO nations.  Including Finland, Sweden, and all Baltic nations.  All decided they too need security guarantees.

Those poor fools.  Anon says it cannot exist.

Why are well proven concept, long proven in history, ignored?  Only extremist ignore facts to even attack Iraq for no purpose.  Extremist embellishment proved it was necessary.

Last edited by tw (3/04/2025 8:36 pm)

Anon wrote:

How are things going there on Fantasy Island?

Extremist do what they only understand.  Insult others.  Anon is apparently running for president. Being well educated in slanderous vibrato.  He only need learn to use more profanity.  It makes a bully more popular.  Being a rapist and a adulter would also help.

We learn from history.


 

When is someone going to say this out loud: they need to repel CLIMATE MIGRANTS for the inevitable future where farmland creeps North, and the Equatorial regions become uninhabitable.
Probably a good idea to acquire some land to the North, as well. Canada, maybe. Greenland might be easier.

It's okay, don't worry about it, "his green card was revoked" so I'm sure that's cool and good.