The Cellar » Funny Politics carefully

Flint · 3/13/2021 4:55 pm

why did you quote me in post #153..?

Last edited by Flint (3/13/2021 4:56 pm)

henry_quirk · 3/13/2021 7:18 pm

Flint wrote:
why did you quote me in post #153..?

Seems pretty damn obvious: I pulled quotes from your post to respond to 'em.

Flint · 3/13/2021 11:49 pm

you didn't respond to them

griff · 3/14/2021 7:21 am

He can't. He will only endorse restraining government intervention never violence from individuals and non-governmental groups. He is in the place the GOP finds itself, endorsing small mindedness as everybody else looks for solutions to problems. It's sad really conservatism wasn't always a cartoon.

fargon · 3/14/2021 7:27 am

I am very conservative, and I am Ashamed of what the republican party has become.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 8:20 am

griff wrote:
He can't. *He will only endorse restraining government intervention never violence from individuals and non-governmental groups. He is in the place the GOP finds itself, endorsing small mindedness as everybody else looks for solutions to problems. It's sad really conservatism wasn't always a cartoon.

*Really? If I prove you wrong, usin' only what I've posted in-forum so far, will you apologize?

Last edited by henry_quirk (3/14/2021 8:26 am)

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 8:21 am

Flint wrote:
you didn't respond to them

Sure I did.

You just don't understand.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 8:23 am

fargon wrote:
I am very conservative, and I am Ashamed of what the republican party has become.

Then stop bein' a repub: no party is the way to go.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 11:46 am

Toad,

I see the piece as a satirical complaint. No one is allowed to criticize certain protected categories. If you do, you're an oppressor or racist or misogynist or anti-this, that or the other. Never mind reasoned debate.

This person is a woman even if she has a penis and if you don't agree we'll make you pay...the man is disenfranchised solely becuz of his skin color and if you don't agree, we'll make you pay...this gov doc sez you have to wear a mask so don't talk to me about another equally qualified doc who sez otherwise; if you do, we'll make you pay...and so forth and so on

I don't see the piece as anything other than, as I say, satirical complaint.

Here it is again...

Suppose you have a kid...who finds that he has the urge to fuck a toaster. In the past, he'd either keep it to himself and learn to live with it, or, if he mentioned it to someone else, they'd tell him he was crazy and pretty much the same thing would happen. Now, he goes online and finds that there's a whole community dedicated to toaster-fucking. Hell, there's an entire Reddit about it (I have no idea if there is actually a toaster-fucking Reddit). So he starts talking online to toaster-fuckers world wide, and they tell him that it's a wonderful hobby, and completely normal, and that anyone who opposes him is oppressing him. This ability to connect can be a wonderful tool for people who are actually facing oppression, but it also magnifies the fringe, and the deviant and the dangerous. Couple this with a media that wants to celebrate anything that is against traditional Western mores and common sense, and pretty soon you have Congressmen introducing bills that toaster-fuckers are a Constitutionally protected class, and anyone who dares say 'Uh, dude, you shouldn't do that” is ostracized. And so the kid winds up burning his dick off.

...it's not about restrictions on individual freedoms bein' enforced by other people (though I'd say the sensible pressures exerted by family, friends, and community are more productive than than the gov mandate which often isn't sensible)...instead, it's about no one bein' allowed to disagree and the insensible over-reach of gov.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 1:03 pm

Undertoad wrote:
This ability to connect can be a wonderful tool for people who are actually facing oppression, but it also magnifies the fringe, and the deviant and the dangerous.
The author is specifically speaking out against the fringe, the deviant, and the dangerous. Self-dangerous, if we take his example of toaster-fucking.

Considering those three categories, fringe, deviant, and self-dangerous -- which of these groups do you oppose?

Oh my...tryin' to put me on the spot, are we?

Try this: anyone -- individually or collectively -- who tells me I can't disagree with them, and -- if I do -- they'll bring the lightnin' down on my bald head.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 1:05 pm

Is there any doubt the author would sign off to this?

You could write and ask him.

henry_quirk · 3/14/2021 3:34 pm

Undertoad wrote:
That's a dodge and a weave sir, unfortunate for us all.

No, it's me not bein' led around by the nose.

I've been straight forward about the piece. I won't, as some would like, be cornered into defendin' some one else's interpretation of my views.

erika · 3/14/2021 9:12 pm

define "can't disagree with them". do you deny people's immutable god-given inalienable right to think you're a complete asshole and not want anything to do with you? to say "wow, you're a real insufferable prick, who thinks and says things about the people i care about that i find disgusting, so i'm going to say 'hey this guy fucking sucks, don't listen to him'"? why do you hate freedom, henry?

Last edited by erika (3/14/2021 9:13 pm)

Flint · 3/14/2021 10:19 pm

quick sidebar-- is this cancel culture? that some people disagree with henry, and tell him? is this what "cancelled" is..?? because, whatever "the lightning" is will presumably happen (although nothing is actually happening but a normal discussion) ... is there a point where this flips and we become in the wrong for pointing out a disagreement..?

is it the volume of disagreement, or is it that the distribution of opinions is asymmetrical? is it when one side of a debate is being presented more coherently, and we are obliged to favor the underdog? what is a "cancel" ..?

Last edited by Flint (3/14/2021 10:22 pm)

xoxoxoBruce · 3/14/2021 11:02 pm

henry_quirk wrote:
...it's not about restrictions on individual freedoms bein' enforced by other people (though I'd say the sensible pressures exerted by family, friends, and community are more productive than than the gov mandate which often isn't sensible)...instead, it's about no one bein' allowed to disagree and the insensible over-reach of gov.

This looks like some authority is gotten out of hand with silly insensible over-reach.
But that rule didn't come out of thin air, it was prompted by someone exercising their freedoms.
Granted some rules(laws) are written by the people who own the politicians to benefit themselves.
But most are trying to protect people from the unscrupulous.

henry_quirk · 3/15/2021 10:15 am

define "can't disagree with them".

Isn't the full line anyone -- individually or collectively -- who tells me I can't disagree with them, and -- if I do -- they'll bring the lightnin' down on my bald head clear enough?

Mebbe not...it's a poor construct...so, I'll clarify: if you say to me wow, you're a real insufferable prick, who thinks and says things about the people i care about that i find disgusting, so i'm going to say 'hey this guy fucking sucks, don't listen to him' then we got no problem, *you and me.

But, if you say to me wow, you're a real insufferable prick, who thinks and says things about the people i care about that i find disgusting, so i'm going to work to criminalize your opinion, have it declared hate speech, and see you silenced well, you see the problem, yeah?

*I don't like you either. Difference is, you don't matter enough, to me, for me to go around tellin' folks about it.

-----

is this cancel culture?

There is no cancel culture.

"the lightning" is not, for example, E disagreein' with me or counterin' my opinion; "the lightning" would be E tryin' to, as I say, criminalize my opinion.

The former has E sayin' you disgust me, Henry, and I'm gonna tell everyone why. E's audience, havin' listened to E, can decide for themselves if I'm a monster or if E is just a pussy. The latter would have E lookin' to punish me, formally silence me, for supposed bad-thought, becuz I hurt someone's feelin's.

And: all of this is apart from slander and libel.

E sayin' Henry, in my view, is an awful person is an opinion. E sayin' Henry fucks toasters would be slanderous.

Last edited by henry_quirk (3/15/2021 1:48 pm)

henry_quirk · 3/15/2021 10:27 am

Looks like the business owner is prejudiced against Equine-Americans.

Flint · 3/15/2021 12:55 pm

I agree, we should invite the participation of people we disagree with.

The other things you mentioned are business decisions-- either corporate policies, or a deliberate public relations strategy to align the perception of a business entity with the predominant attitudes within a market. It causes a kerfuffle when one group who used to hold the monopoly on "traditional Western mores and common sense" is losing their market share, and therefore their cultural veto power.

Flint · 3/15/2021 3:16 pm

I propose that regular people's voices being able to influence cultural institutions is a very good and positive development. What we say we don't like is "top down" enforcement of societal norms. This isn't "top down" and I think it's too often treated as if an oppressive "other" force is imposing it's will on society. What's happening is that new societal norms are occurring organically, and due to the faster pace information exchange, and our longer lifespans, social change is overlapping generations more than in the past, when people did things the same way for 1,000 years because nobody could read.

What results is friction, and the minority position (formerly the majority position) feels they are being wronged, and is either 1) aware that the positions have been reversed, or 2) has no awareness and thinks this is a new thing, that needs a new word invented for it.

Flint · 3/15/2021 7:00 pm

Delicious. This is like me trying to dunk on you, but hitting my head on the backboard, knocking myself out, you grab the ball and immediately throw a full-court shot in the other direction.

Flint · 3/15/2021 7:22 pm

shampoo is better! I go on first and clean the hair!

henry_quirk · 3/16/2021 6:34 pm

Flint · 3/16/2021 7:54 pm

the Onion did it better--

xoxoxoBruce · 3/16/2021 8:26 pm

Flint wrote:

What results is friction, and the minority position (formerly the majority position) feels they are being wronged, and is either 1) aware that the positions have been reversed, or 2) has no awareness and thinks this is a new thing, that needs a new word invented for it.

Don't overestimate your strength, our personal social circle may be more or less solid in beliefs, but hearing or reading someone outside the circle agree with you on something doesn't mean they agree on everything. That's a risky way to sort good guys and bad guys, I've seen it backfire, I've had it backfire on me when I made that mistake.

Last edited by xoxoxoBruce (3/16/2021 8:26 pm)

henry_quirk · 3/16/2021 9:52 pm

Flint wrote:
the Onion did it better--

The Onion's is about sumthin' else entirely.