The Cellar » Religion grab bag thread

griff · 4/06/2021 6:45 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/05/americans-religion-rightwing-politics-decline?fbclid=IwAR2j_j0zgwFHkc7hR4ozySK8ZoOe5Qsls5wpdHBG3FU8Z_Q7nMp-zBdLYcgDavid Campbell, professor andchair of the University of Notre Dame’s political science department and co-author ofAmerican Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, said a reason for the decline among those groups is political – an “allergic reaction to the religious right”.“Many Americans – especially young people – see religion as bound up with political conservatism, and the Republican party specifically,” Campbell said.“Since that is not their party, or their politics, they do not want to identify as being religious. Young people are especially allergic to the perception that many – but by no means all – American religions are hostile to LGBTQ rights.”Research by Campbell shows that a growing number of Americans have turned away from religion as politicians – particularly Republicans – have mixed religion with their politics. Campbell says there has always been an ebb and flow in American adherence to religion, but he thinks the current decline is likely to continue.“I see no sign that the religious right, and Christian nationalism, is fading. Which in turn suggests that the allergic reaction will continue to be seen – and thus more and more Americans will turn away from religion,” he said.

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As liberals and moderates are driven out of the Churches, the isolation and belief, among the faithful, that they're being oppressed increases. I read on a friend's Bacefook a while back that it was the liberalization of the Church which caused so many to leave. That does not match my experience at all. I suppose I should have said something.

Last edited by griff (4/06/2021 4:55 pm)

Flint · 4/06/2021 12:46 pm

A wise man once said, "Politics is the new religion"

This study seems to be saying that the religion is the new politics.

Somewhere I read that, if there are "two types of people, " it's something like-- one group of people are more centered on tribal identification with a prescribed slate of moral laws and social norms, whereas others are more centered on adapting to new information to alter the nuances of their belief system. I wish I could find that article..

griff · 4/06/2021 5:13 pm

I'm having page break issues.

I think I remember the article you're referencing but haven't sorted out the search terms to find it.

https://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu/bitstream/handle/1951/52392/000000880.sbu.pdf?sequence=1

This research project was begun with the conviction that indeed there is a natural affinity—that political ideology is largely a psychological phenomenon. By this terminology I mean that ideology is something other than simply a constellation of policy positions that “hang together” in one way for conservatives, in another for liberals, and still another for Marxists, feminists, socialists, and so on. In other words, while it is certainly sensible in some conversational contexts to discuss liberalism or conservatism as a collection of positions, I will show that there’s a clear sense in which ideological thinking is not synonymous with manifesto endorsement, although a particular ideological style of thinking certainly might lead to the endorsement of a particular manifesto.

fargon · 4/06/2021 7:26 pm

I hate the new republican party. They have become a religion unto them selves with trump as their savior.

monster · 4/06/2021 10:26 pm

I find it odd -coming from a country with a National Religion- that religion and politics seem to be totally inseparable in a country that proudly fanfares the "separation of church and state". I am also dismayed by the intolerance towards non-christians, be they believers in another god, the same god differently, or no god at all.

Most of all, I am gobsmacked about the lack of religious education. And I don't mean indoctrination. I mean education -teaching the facts- about as many of the religions as possible. Almost all cultures around the world have some religion hiding in there somewhere. How can you understand different cultures if you do not understand different religions? And if you do not understand different cultures, how can you consider yourself educated and first-world? How can you interact with the rest of the country and the rest of the world on a productive basis? How can you consider yourself a member of the human race?

I'm fairly horrified that a female president is still so far away in a country that considers itself The World Leader, that there is so much hostility to the idea in general that who that might be doesn't even figure.... when so much of the rest of the world has thrived under female leadership for quite some time. But it's more worrying that is that still seems more likely than an openly non-christian president (regardless of their gender).

monster · 4/06/2021 10:39 pm

I'm also staggered that so many people don't seem to care if someone is religious or adheres to the doctrine of their religion as long as they say they are -throw the odd "God Willing" or "You are in my prayers" kind of phrase in there occasionally.

....but I equally hate the current "Easier to ask forgiveness than permission" culture. There's not a day passes without a headline along the lines of "Public Figure "sorry" for using the X word, promises to reeducate themselves" It's all bollocks and I hate it. As much as I hate kids being made to say sorry immediately they do something wrong. Just "Sorry". What do the learn from that? It means nothing to them, they don't learn about better ways to behave....... they mostly still got what they wanted. When my kids needed to apologize, I required they understand how they had hurt the injured party and the apology included an explaination to them that they now understood. I know. I'm a bitch and this is a rant. bite me, I'll ask forgiveness and promise to re-educate myself later ;)

Actions speak louder than words. people.......

Last edited by monster (4/06/2021 10:40 pm)

griff · 4/07/2021 6:38 am

Catholics used to tout works as crucial to a place in heaven. Now it's a whole different universe inside the right wing church. Between the horrifying statements, Trump was saying the things right wing Christians needed to hear from a candidate. Abortion was the biggie. Since these same voters are largely opposed to birth control, the only answer is making abortion illegal. A logical thinker would say education and free access to birth control can get us largely away from abortion, but the right wing Church is about authority not reason.

glatt · 4/07/2021 8:40 am

This ties right in to an article in today's paper.

Apparently U.S. Sen. Raphael G. Warnock, who is also a black pastor at Atlanta’s Ebenezer Baptist Church, posted the following tweet on Easter Sunday:

“The meaning of Easter is more transcendent than the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Whether you are Christian or not, through a commitment to helping others we are able to save ourselves.”

After his tweet received multiple criticisms, it was deleted and blamed on a staff member. It shone a light on a major crack that runs through US Christianity. It seems that conservative Christians believe that all you have to do is believe in Christ, and you are good, while more progressive Christians believe you must believe in Christ and also love your neighbor.

In the Bible there is a famous passage where somebody ask Jesus for the most important of the all the rules. 29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[b] 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] There is no commandment greater than these.” (Emphasis mine)

I was writing in another thread recently about the importance of serving others, so it’s clear what camp I belong in. It seems like a religion where you can do any selfish thing you want and hurt other people as much as you want and just say that since you believe in Christ you’re just fine, is really ignoring the message.

Luce · 4/07/2021 9:19 am

Well, so much for Calvinism.

Luce · 4/07/2021 10:09 am

Undertoad wrote:
But WaPo covering Twitter battles makes me LOL

I was actually in that Twitter thread, replying to bluechecks, and I can tell you that my opinions are not newsworthy

You already got them here LOL

Arguing politics is like playing king of the hill on a landfill.

Even if you win, you're still on a landfill.

BigV · 4/08/2021 8:13 pm

same no tag wimp-out, same thread-love.

Advance!

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