The Cellar » Tragedies at Sea

Diaphone Jim · 3/05/2026 12:18 pm

When I started to make this post one of the intrusive spirits that inhabit my computer reminded me that I used this subject title before. That time it was about the media and the two vessel sinkings (Titanic explorer and the refugee ship in the Mediterranean Sea).

This time it is about the unconscionable torpedoing of the Iranian navy ship by a US submarine in the Indian Ocean.
It was to be expected of Trump and Hedspeth, but I think the captain of the sub should be ashamed of, and possibly punished for, NOT refusing to follow an illegal order.

Last edited by Diaphone Jim (3/05/2026 12:19 pm)

Flint · 3/05/2026 2:02 pm

I saw on Reddit, Russian LNG tanker ship 'Arctic Metagaz' on fire in the Mediterranean.

uncitedly, that's what this image is:

Last edited by Flint (3/05/2026 2:03 pm)

tw · 3/05/2026 4:09 pm

Arctic Metagaz was last reported coming from S coast of China to a port in Egypt. Was (three days ago) north of Malta. It may have diverted to Libya to take on LNG. Which explains why it would turn off its AIS three days ago. Putting it just leaving Libya with a full LNG load; destination unknown.

Who was torpedoing ships previously without a declaration of war? Nazi Germany. Do we learn from history? For example, an American destroyer (USS Reuben James) was sunk by a German U-boat in Oct 1941. Same submarine also sunk the American freighter SS Pink Star.

What makes that any different from what Trump ordered?

Diaphone Jim · 3/06/2026 12:21 pm

Didn't most comments here use to have some relationship to the original post?

Diaphone Jim · 3/07/2026 12:50 pm

Read the linked article and found no "consensus," only two professors agreeing.
Hard even to call it a war crime, since there is no declared war.
I'll just call it murder on the high seas and hope a multi-station gallows is being planned someplace.

tw · 3/07/2026 1:09 pm

Only two people said they believe an attack was justified. Somehow that is proof that the AP said so? Extremists will always and conventiently without relevant facts.

The US is not (legally) at war with Iran. Only justified are threats provided by some Iranians. Without a declaration of war, then all are not targets. Only threats are justified targets.

Using his reasoning, then killing Iranian civilians are also justified. Meaning the US is using this same logic that Netanyahu uses to massacre Gaza civilians.

To be justified, the US must be at war with Iran. It must be declared by Congress. Congress has not authorized a war. If at war, than Iranian embassies, assets, and businesses throughout the world are also legitimate targets.

According to an extremist, Iran must unconditionally surrender. That means a declaration of war exists. But it never happened. And yet any Iranian asset or institution anywhere in the world is now a legitimate target. According to two people. And not the AP - as was intentionally and deceptfully stated.

Legitimate targets are currently only threats the US. That ship, on the other side of India, was never a legitimate threat. It is only a legal target when the US (or Iran) actually declares war. Which is what so many others are stating.

Trump and his right wing extremists supporters invent justification whenever it is convenient. Because their are extremists. Even ignore American court orders. Even setup Guantanamo style prisons outside the US. This Trump apostle also and even approved of Guantanamo.

tw · 3/07/2026 1:15 pm

Anon wrote:
Those professors are explaining why neither the US nor the UN are determining it was illegal.

But that is not what Anon posted.

The Associated Press reports a consensus that the action was not illegal under either international or American military law:

Only two people believe it is legal. AP said nothing about a consensus. Anon intentionally misrepresents what the AP says.

Now if constructive, then he said how military attacks on something that is not a threat, and without a declaration of war, is somehow legal.

tw · 3/07/2026 2:27 pm

Always amazing how extremists only see what they want to see. Due to the lies of Vietnam (and 50,000 useless American deaths for the greater glory of an extremists President), US law provided only 150 days of military action. Which is not war. Korean was authorized by the UN. As was the rescue to Kuwait. And screwed up actions in Somalia. In every case, an American military response (ie Panama) was only limited to threats to America. Not to all military and civilian targets.

Unconditional surrender means Trump has declared total war on Iran. Without any legal justification. Two people (not the AP) think that (and Guantanamo) are righteous and legal? A lesson from history where a democracy slowly becomes a dictatorship. Ask if we need a King or despot. Who loves dictatorships? Extremists.

Gaddafi in Libya was attacked only after he attacked (and further threatened) Americans and American allies. That also was only a one day action. Limited only to a tiny part of Libya that was a threat. American did not attack every military asset in Libya. Or in Somalia. Or in Iraq (the action that was legal and intentionally limited). Even actions in Afghanistan were limited to that part that was a threat to America - bin Laden and the Taliban. Did not attack any other military asset in Afghanistan.

And (ironically) American troops in Afghanistan were assisted by iran's best troops - Quds force.

Congress (the gang of 8) was always informed of every limited action. Limited only to the threat and in time.

What did Trump try to do in his first term? We were only ten minutes away from an unjustified and illegal attack on Iran. Fortunately, the many serious Trump people managed to stop it before Trump created a crime. But then an extremist forgets to learn all this. Just knows that any Iranian is a justified target because no war was declared by Congress.

Same respect for law also says why Guantanamo and secret CIA prisons all over the world were good and righteous. Because wacko right wing extremism is always ethical.

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice", said another right wing wacko who loved wasting 50,000 Americans in Vietnam for no purpose. Anon again demonstrates contempt for fundamental American values. Even totally misrepresents the AP to justify a lie.

Declaration of war is a red herring.

More contempt for American principles and the Constitution.

Last edited by tw (3/07/2026 2:28 pm)

Diaphone Jim · 3/08/2026 12:05 pm

Anon wrote:
Those professors are explaining why neither the US nor the UN are determining it was illegal.

You can call it whatever you want.

I did. I called it murder, just the same of the hundreds of people blown up in the Caribbean Sea and the Pacific Ocean.

What do you call it?

tw · 3/08/2026 2:08 pm

one who posts .. same thing over and over again

... does so because extremists cannot learn. Only emotions justify lies such as Saddam's WMDs. And the righteous terrorists on 6 January. Because the Central Committee of the Party orders extremists how to think. Realty reposted because it does not change.

Extremists still promote hate. It justified their myths. Even justifies Guantanamo because penis based logic says torture is good. Only thing that cannot change is a mindset that refuses to learn from reality.

One with a biggest gun must be unimpeachable when he advocated the massacre of innocent people in Gaza and Iran. After all, the supreme leader said he would not get America into endless wars. He unilaterally and without justification has now attacked seven nations in one year. While helping Putin attack Ukraine by withholding American support of Ukraine. Since Trump praises Putin while publicly denying what all 17 American intelligence agencies all report.

So his extremist supporters also say that is good.

Wacko extremist always know they are righteous when given big guns. Only extremists always approve of all bogus and unnecessary violence - including Vietnam. And Saddam's mythical weapons of mass destruction. Repeated but again when extremists in the Cellar deny reality.

Being an anti-American and denying facts has not changed. Extremists are only ordered what to believe. Even Gaza is just another concentration camp that only extremists approve of. Rather than learn, extremist complain that reality was repeated.

Last edited by tw (3/08/2026 2:10 pm)

tw · 3/08/2026 7:41 pm

Your posted disinformation. Subverted the topic. Posting:

The Associated Press reports a consensus that the action was not illegal

AP did not post a consensus. Only two lawyers suggested it was legal; without any reasons why. What follows are reasons why that you ignore and deny. Without even one fact. Then posted a half truth that ignored more facts:

The US hasn’t declared war since WWII yet has been involved in numerous military actions that US laws provide for without a formal declaration of war.

Intentionally ignoring many facts include a required notification of Congress, a 150 day requirement, and other facts. Legal only to attack an isolated threat. Not the entire nation. War is illegal when attacking the entire nation without a declaration of war. Even demands for unconditional surrender without a Congressional declaration of war is a Constitutional violation.

What war was unjustified? The Mission Accomplished war, that was invented by lies, by extremists. Extremists in the Cellar then intentionally ignored reams of facts that expose that was as a lie. That even proved with numbers that the mythical WMDs could not exist. But that meant learning facts; ignoring emotions.

Another completely illegal war that proves the US can again become a despot nation. When the president is not a moderate. And is righteous only because he has big guns.

Unconditional surrender means this president has declared war on the entire nation of Iran. Violating the Constitution - which he also demonstrated contempt for. Except when it is convenient.

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice

That is the topic.

You subverted the topic with gross disinformation. Do not once contribute a fact to justify your disinformation.

Is this unconstitutional war and a submarine attack justified? Then post facts that legitimize your denials. Discuss the topic. How is an attack to only cause regime change also justify attcks on everyone else? Including a ship on the far side of India? Contribute something honest. Not bogus WWII myths.

Last edited by tw (3/08/2026 7:47 pm)

tw · 3/09/2026 7:28 am

And again, Anon demonstrates lies that also justified the Mission Accomplished war. He pretends the killing of Iranian sailors, far off on the other side of India, is somehow unrelated to what was only suppose to be regime change. That ship, far off on the other side of India, had zero relevance to regime change or the Iranian Ayatollah. So it is an illegal act. Congress never declared war.

But again, NEVER make the exact same mistake that massacred 5,000 American servicemen in Iraq. This is not regime change. This is all out war on the entire nation of Iran. Including an 'Unconditional' surrender. A war that exists only for the ego of extremists - Trump and Anon included.

America is violating everything necessary for victory. First a smoking gun must exist. There is none. So the invented atomic bomb infive days (which is impossible) is a fictitious excuse. No different than Saddam's mythical WMDs.

Second, a strategic objective must exist. None stated. The so called 'regime change' never happens using a Gaza style massacre of innocent people. 80% of the people in Iraq wanted Saddam gone. 80% of Iranians wanted the Ayatollah gone. We are making the same mistake in Iran.

And third, there must be an exit strategy. None exists. And could not exist. Because extremists see violence as a solution. Including the sinking of an Iranian ship on the other side of India.

Never make the mistake that Anon makes. Now he plays the "I am a victim" card. Pretending all those damning facts do not exist and are irrelevant. Forgetting the topic is what this Tragedy indicates. Hegseth is using same reasoning and rhetoric that Rumsfeld used to massacre 5,000 Americans in Iraq.

Sinking of that Iranian ship clearly demonstrates that American has declared all out war on everyone in Iran. Complete with unconditional surrender. Is now spending about $2 billion a day. For the greater glory of Trump. A movie was called "Wag the Dog". Done for this same purpose. But this actual war on everyone in Iran is not fictitious. Right wing extremists, just like in the Mission Accomplished war, see all this as good. Including the sinking of that ship.

Since Anon cannot learn (read) those damning facts, instead, he proclaims himself a victim. Rather thant learn he loves what is a clearly an illegal war. Using the same mistakes found in both Misson Accomplished and an American surrender in Afghanistan.

Last edited by tw (3/09/2026 12:51 pm)

griff · 3/10/2026 12:21 pm

Diaphone Jim wrote:
Anon wrote:
Those professors are explaining why neither the US nor the UN are determining it was illegal.

You can call it whatever you want.
I did. I called it murder, just the same of the hundreds of people blown up in the Caribbean Sea and the Pacific Ocean.

What do you call it?

I agree. I just finished Das Boot which unfortunately is pretty explanatory of rogue regimes.

I saw some complaints that Voice of America isn’t able to broadcast effectively into Iran. Explaining to Iranians why we just blew up the old religious extremist terrorist in favor of a younger religious extremist terrorist while bolstering hatred of America by murdering school girls is likely difficult now that America has no values beyond greed, cruelty, and supporting pedophilia. Maybe Great Satan isn’t so far off the mark.

tw · 3/11/2026 11:09 am

griff wrote:
I saw some complaints that Voice of America isn’t able to broadcast effectively into Iran. Explaining to Iranians why we j...murdering school girls is likely difficult now that America has no values beyond greed, cruelty, and supporting pedophilia.

The Defense Department once had a large staff that review such attacks. To verify it does not kill innocent people. That office was removed by Trump and Doge to remove unnecessary waste by the Democrats.

Voice of America (Radio Liberty, Radio Free Asia, etc) was also dismantled for the same reasons by same Trump people.

Same Trump people are now spending $2billion a day in Iran. Attacking everyone who has no relationship to regime change. Extremists (people with less intelligence) say this is all good.

Last edited by tw (3/11/2026 11:10 am)

Diaphone Jim · 3/12/2026 12:22 pm

Thanks griff.
I was beginning to think that no one in the Cellar was paying attention anymore.
Everyday under DJT's megalomania gets worse.

Diaphone Jim · 3/13/2026 11:30 am

Also OTOH, the "price at the pump" went up on the very day of the US sneak attack on Iran. It will certainly continue to do so.
The oil from the Gulf is months away from being in any pump, especially one in the US.
So any price increase is 100% excess profit to the oil companies. with no cost to them except the pay to the guys that change the signs.
And it will go on months past the situation "improves," if it does.
Big oil and Trump on the same page. Imagine that.

tw · 3/13/2026 12:43 pm

All this is ongoing and will only get worse as both sides demonstrated no strategic objectives. Everything done only for vague and 'manliness' tactical objectives.

Example: Iran's actions clearly demonstrated no strategic thinking. All decisions (since the death of so many strategic thinker on 28 Feb) are only wildly flaying out at anyone the local commander 'feels' is the enemy. And so Iranian local commanders, without any top level direction, are launching attacks wildly on Israel, Jordan, and Persian Gulf counties (from Kuwait to Oman), one of the K-stan nations, and Turkey. Surprisingly not at Pakistan and Afghanistan.

No attacks have any coorindiated objective. Successful damage has only made Iran's international position despised in the world community. 137 nations in the UN have voted to condemn Iran. Even though they are victims here. And even though all Trump reasoning to unilaterally 'Pearl Harbor' Iran are unjustified. Iran was at least ten years away from making a ballistic missile. They had no plans to build an atomic bomb. Only had components to make a bomb. That would required at least five years.

Worse, this surprise attack on Iran has changed the minds of many in Iran who did not want the bomb. They have now learned from North Korea and Ukraine. Always have atomic bombs so as to not be Pearl Harbored. Don't for one minute not see whats other nations now see and want. By learning from Iran leadership's mistake

Where do such fact come from? Israel. Whose spy network has massively infiltrated the entire Iranian government. Because the Ayatollah are so despised in Iran. Even Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a former president and the head of their anti-spy unit, created to only find Israeli spies, was an Israeli spy.

So what is (could be) Iran's strategic objective? A much smaller country (Iraq) did massive damage to the Americans). Whereas that population was about 80% anti-Saddam, that nation then hated Americans. A strategy that Iranians are probably looking at.

But at higher levels, they do not have (apparently) strategic leadership. Khamenei's son is apparelty only a figurehead due to a serious lack of leadership. Which probably would not exist had Qasem Soleimani not been murdered by a low intelligent American president. A man who, on multiple occasions, had attempted to restore friendship between Iran and America. Who actually trailblazed for American invaders (Marines) into Afghanistan. Until some idiot invented lies about the axis of evil.

Interesting are the ships transversing the Strait of Hormuz. Mostly container ships moving between Oman and UAE. And tankers with destinations listed as Chinese crews. One would think major convoys of tankers, surrounded and protected by Aleigh Burke destroyers, could pass through. But then is the other side of this coin. America also has no strategic strategy or thinkers. Nobody in high American office bothered to think through any of this. Just like in Iran, there is no strategic strategy or people capable of doing same.

Only the ignorant, who see tactical objectives as if strategic (big bombs prove we are righteous) are making decisions on the Ameican side. Meaning America also has no exit strategy.

Expect these consequences to result in ongoing conflict even in December. As America continues to do only what Israel wants. And spend $2 billion daily. To bomb Iran into the stone age as Israelis also did to Gaza. And now want Americans to also do to Lebanon.

A very first question that only educated Americans will ask. What is or could be Iran's strategic objective? Anyone with any intelligence during any previous war (WWII, Vietnam, Mission Accomplished, Desert Storm) always knew what the enemies strategic objective was. To then separate domestic liars from moderates (intelligent thinkers). What is or could be their strategic objective?

And then what are other nations now thinking (reevaluating).

This tradegy at sea is a tiny part of demonstrating how little intelligent thought exists on both sides at highest levels. And then identifies which Americans do not know and could not even 'ask to learn' any of this.

Last edited by tw (3/13/2026 12:51 pm)

Diaphone Jim · 3/14/2026 11:23 am

Anon wrote:
If the strategic objective is WWIII, they don’t need an exit strategy… just a survival strategy.

Diaphone Jim wrote:
Also OTOH, the "price at the pump" went up on the very day of the US sneak attack on Iran. It will certainly continue to do so.
People will use less gas, there’ll be fewer emissions, and the birds will have cleaner air to breath not to mention they need that stuff to fly you know.

You know, Anon, your retreat to "cleverness" often is a good clue that you wish to obscure points others make.
In this case, it is the immediate and huge profit taking by big oil.

tw · 3/14/2026 2:24 pm

Diaphone Jim wrote:
In this case, it is the immediate and huge profit taking by big oil.

Others, such as Putin, are prospering from a Trump and Netanyahu's war. Resulting oil shortage has enabled Russia to sell more oil to more countries. At much higher prices. Even putting Ukraine at greater risk.

Some numbers. The world is now 20 million barrels a day short of oil Even at maximum flow, the US oil reserve can only provide 1.5 million barrels.

Professional up to a few day ago said Kharg Island must not be attacked. So that oil can flow after this conflict ends. Instead a man with no grasp started attacking Kharg Island yesterday. That will somehow create regime change? Meaning oil may not flow for a year after the conflict ends. He has done what he always does - lie. Some people love him because he constantly lies.

Obviously the US has no strategic objective. Did nothing to plan protection of the Straits of Hormuz - an obvious problem. Is now deploying a Marine invasion fleet to do what he said he would never do. They will not arrive for 1 - 2 weeks. Latest 'secret' plan to continue this war for many more months. At $2 billion a day To put boots on the ground. To attack double the number of people in Iraq.

How much was wasted on an endless war in iraq? What happens when Army troops invade Iran? That is a new plan for regime change? The mythical strategic objective. How militaries are defeated - in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Mission Accomplished was also about regime change.

tw · 3/22/2026 12:21 pm

Now that regime change is impossible, the President has admitted he need money for at least 100 more days of war. And that the White House had zero plans to protect Hormuz. Since (just like Putin) they ignored what the Generals and Admiral were always saying. That a three day war would only make things worse.

The Marines were only just deployed. An intelligent White House would have deployed them at least three week ago - if thinking as educated adults. And not like Cheney and Rumsfeld (the Mission Accomplished war).

So we know this. And numerous corporate executive are saying this. gasoline will rise to at least $6 per gallon. No way around that reality. Only fools think the current $4 per gallon is high. Worse, LNG prices will also spike.

Countries such as China, that make more electricity from wind mills and solar panels, will not suffer. Since they use engineers (not business school graduates) to make decisions. Since China but again is demonstrating more intelligence then the US White House.

Since most fossil fuel electric plant now use natural gas, electric prices must also go up significantly.

Who will suffer? Some electric smelters for aluminum will have to shutdown. It takes up to 5 months to restart one. Just another example of how many American industries will be punished thanks to Trump's ego. And how Sen Lindsay Graham so well taught Netanyahu how to play Trump's ego.

The attack on a frigate east of India simply demonstrated how much Trump was lying that much. As if that would create a regime change.

Last edited by tw (3/22/2026 12:22 pm)

tw · 3/24/2026 6:31 pm

Apparently one brigade of the 82nd Airborne is now being deployed to Iran. To do what Netanyahu now says America must do for regime change. He intentionally forgot to mention this to Trump when he duped Trump to start another unjustified war. For the greater glory of an anti-humanity Likud party

Trump has zero grasp of a strategic objective. It requires decisions based in intelligent thought. Like any extremist. He now uses Nixon and Cheney reasoning. To do massive harm even to the American economy. Big guns and big explosions means we must be winning. Works on anyone enthralled in penis logic.

Just like in "Wag the Dog". Except this war actually exists. Duping wacko extremists who, just like in Nam and the Mission Accomplished war, foolishly think we are being patriotic Americans.

The invasion of Iran will probably start with an attack on three small islands in the Strait of Hormuz. Followed by an invasion of a larger Qeshm Island. Trump promised no troops on the ground Extremists who loved the Mission Accomplished war, will simply forget why we wasted 5,000 American servicemen in Iraq for no purpose. How many times has Trump lied? Sometimes contradicting himself in less than 12 hours.

Deja Vue Nam.

Remember Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani was killed by Trump. On multiple occasions, Soleimani attempted restoration of friendly relations between Iran and the US. His Quds force were the trailblazers for an American invasion of Afghanistan. Trump killed one who could have help restore peaceful restorations with Iran.

Trump undermined the democratically elected Iranian government under Hassan Rouhani. Who negotiated the end of Iran's nuclear program with Russian, China, the EU, the UN, and America. Trump destroyed the entire deal in 2018. Bringing the Ayatollahs and Mojtaba Khamenei into power. The Ayatollahs then restarted Iran's nuclear program. Since religious dictators, just like American extremists, only understand hate and egotistical power. Trump got extremists in Iran that he approves of.

Sort of like looking in a mirror.

But again, Deja Vue Nam.

Diaphone Jim · 3/25/2026 11:51 am

Strange to find "STABO" and "peep" together.
One is a special use, fairly rare military acronym and the other a cutesy internet fad (I think, since I can't find a definition of it).

Diaphone Jim · 3/26/2026 11:06 am

I repeat: "cutesy internet fad."

tw · 3/26/2026 6:38 pm

"I did my first STABO extraction working with some MI peeps"

Look closer. Those guys a texting one another.

griff · 3/28/2026 6:16 am

How does losing an AWAC impact the boots on the ground nuttiness?